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  • Sniper 79

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    Oct 7, 2012
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    Hello all! I had a 16" carbine chambered in 300Blk sitting around that I lost interest in. Traded a fellow INGO member barrels so I could get my gun back to the .223/5.56 and start enjoying it again.

    I ended up trading him for an 18" 1-7 twist Wylde chamber full rifle length gas by Palmetto. Probably not a barrel I would have chose for myself but figured I would give it a try.

    I installed it torqued everything to spec and hit the range. It ran (wait for it) "flawless" with 5.56 55grn through about 70 rounds or so. When I tried .223 rem factory ammo it wouldn't cycle the next round. It would kick the spent one out but just come up short of grabbing that next round. I tried one round in the mag at a time and it wouldn't lock the bolt back either. I tried three other types of .223 rem ammo to rule that out. Functioned the same with all .223 ammo I had.

    Took it home to check things out. Gun was clean and lubed properly. Everything looks fine except some obvious gas leakage around gas block where tube goes in and some on the other end of the tube where it goes into gas key. It is a factory low pro gas block that came with the Palmetto barrel.

    I am sure it is under gassed to run the .223. I sure would like it to run both 5.56 and .223 since it is the Wylde chamber. The gas port I can stick a .093 drill bit shank into.

    Should I try a better quality adj gas block or drill the port a little larger for better function on a wider ammo selection?

    What you think INGO? I dig the barrel and it shoots straight.

    Forgot to mention my lower has an adj stock. Standard carbine spring and standard buffer. Looks to be the M16 style bolt carrier.
     

    55fairlane

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    Jan 15, 2016
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    Ok, let' start here what brands of 556 and 223 ? Any of this ammo reloads?

    Round count on barrel? BCG?

    The gas pressure at the port is the key, are you certain the gas port is not blocked or clogged? Or are you leaking around the adj. Block...... personally I'm not a fan of them.....

    My 16 inch carbine with rifle leanth gas system ( also PSA 1/7 twist) runs perfectly, 556, 223, reloads, cheap steal cased.......

    Aaron
     

    Fargo

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    In a state of acute Pork-i-docis
    Rifle gas system and a carbine buffer might have something to do with it, the carbine buffer is designed around the short hard pressure spike of a carbine gas system. The rifle length will generally have a lower pressure spike but much longer dwell.

    One quick and easy thing to try would be to swap in a AR15 bolt carrier, they have less mass and might be enough to get it to cycle all right. Also make sure you don't have a heavy or H2 buffer in it.

    Before messing with the gas port size, I would try to doublecheck taht the gasblock/tube is lined up and seated properly and tinker with the stock/boltcarrier group/buffer.
     

    seedubs1

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    Well.....it’s short stroking for sure with the weaker 223 stuff based on what you’ve said.

    Chase down anything that can cause the bcg to hang up or cause extra friction. Sounds like you’re already using a light buffer and spring, so not much more to do there. Verify a good seal at the gas block/journal and gas tube to gas block.

    You won’t gain anything by going to an adjustable gas block. Adjustable gas blocks only let you turn the gas down. Sounds like you may need more gas, not less.

    I think .093 is what Faxon uses on their 18” rlgs. Crane spec is a bit higher though. I think .093 is as low as I’d want on an 18 rlgs. Once you run everything down and troubleshoot, you can always open up the port if it’s not running weak 223 and that’s what you want to run.....or just use 556 like god intended :):
     

    Sniper 79

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    Ok, let' start here what brands of 556 and 223 ? Any of this ammo reloads?

    Round count on barrel? BCG?

    The gas pressure at the port is the key, are you certain the gas port is not blocked or clogged? Or are you leaking around the adj. Block...... personally I'm not a fan of them.....

    My 16 inch carbine with rifle leanth gas system ( also PSA 1/7 twist) runs perfectly, 556, 223, reloads, cheap steal cased.......

    Aaron

    Wolf Gold, PMC Bronze, hand loads, Hornaday steel case for 223. 5.56 was Federal

    Gun has a few hundred or so before barrel swap. Barrel was new uninstalled.

    I took gas block off. Perfect ring of carbon around port on barrel. Should have been aligned ok. I can blow through tube and block ok.

    Looks like it was leaking some where tube goes into block. It is a low pro that came with barrel.
     

    Sniper 79

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    Rifle gas system and a carbine buffer might have something to do with it, the carbine buffer is designed around the short hard pressure spike of a carbine gas system. The rifle length will generally have a lower pressure spike but much longer dwell.

    One quick and easy thing to try would be to swap in a AR15 bolt carrier, they have less mass and might be enough to get it to cycle all right. Also make sure you don't have a heavy or H2 buffer in it.

    Before messing with the gas port size, I would try to doublecheck taht the gasblock/tube is lined up and seated properly and tinker with the stock/boltcarrier group/buffer.

    It's a standaRd buffer and spring. I do have another rifle with an AR15 bolt carrier. I hesitate swapping bolts like that without a headspace gauges.
     

    Sniper 79

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    Well.....it’s short stroking for sure with the weaker 223 stuff based on what you’ve said.

    Chase down anything that can cause the bcg to hang up or cause extra friction. Sounds like you’re already using a light buffer and spring, so not much more to do there. Verify a good seal at the gas block/journal and gas tube to gas block.

    You won’t gain anything by going to an adjustable gas block. Adjustable gas blocks only let you turn the gas down. Sounds like you may need more gas, not less.

    I think .093 is what Faxon uses on their 18” rlgs. Crane spec is a bit higher though. I think .093 is as low as I’d want on an 18 rlgs. Once you run everything down and troubleshoot, you can always open up the port if it’s not running weak 223 and that’s what you want to run.....or just use 556 like god intended :):

    I made sure to wipe spring down and put a light coat of oil. Seems to move nice and slick.

    Is there a better quality gas block that would give me a tighter seal?

    Any idea how much to open the port up to?

    I like to shoot the 223 if I can.
     

    halfmileharry

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    Dec 2, 2010
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    Did you try the 556 again after the .223 wouldn't cycle?
    Go back to the 556 and see if it cycles.
    My first guess it that it's leaking gas OR the gas block isn't lined up properly. I'm looking at a couple of my rifles and don't see any gas blow by on either of them.
    Some gas blocks have a lot of tolerance for alignment (aka bigger or longer hole) some gas blocks have very little tolerance and are difficult to get a "hole to hole" match.
     

    Fargo

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    In a state of acute Pork-i-docis
    It's a standaRd buffer and spring. I do have another rifle with an AR15 bolt carrier. I hesitate swapping bolts like that without a headspace gauges.

    If you are worried about headspace, you can just switch which bolt is in each carrier. That said, I have never really heard of headspace issues unless we are talking about a really worn in bolt or barrel extension.

    Did you try a different magazines? For it to be such a fine line where 556 runs but 223 doesn't, I'm going to guess it is a couple of tolerances that have stacked up against you. It could be as simple as just going to a different magazine.
     

    KokomoDave

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    Is the barrel dimpled for the gas block if it uses the standard set screws? Tight seal between gas block and barrel step / stop would eliminate any blow by if both ports are aligned and of the correct size. Sometimes too much wiggle between the two will allow pressure to drop on the lower pressure .223 stuff .
     

    Sniper 79

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    Did you try the 556 again after the .223 wouldn't cycle?
    Go back to the 556 and see if it cycles.
    My first guess it that it's leaking gas OR the gas block isn't lined up properly. I'm looking at a couple of my rifles and don't see any gas blow by on either of them.
    Some gas blocks have a lot of tolerance for alignment (aka bigger or longer hole) some gas blocks have very little tolerance and are difficult to get a "hole to hole" match.


    Yes I ended with a mag full of 5.56 and it ran real nice.

    Thanks for looking yours over. Maybe it's leaking just enough around that gas block tube hole then. I believe I had perfect hole to hole match up.

    Maybe will order up a new block and tube and try that.
     

    Sniper 79

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    Is the barrel dimpled for the gas block if it uses the standard set screws? Tight seal between gas block and barrel step / stop would eliminate any blow by if both ports are aligned and of the correct size. Sometimes too much wiggle between the two will allow pressure to drop on the lower pressure .223 stuff .

    Barrel to block seems ok. Has a haze on top of barrel and gas tube. Looks like it came from where tube goes into gas block.
     

    churchmouse

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    :popcorn:

    I swap Bolt assembly's all the time if I am having issues. It is part of the elimination process. Never had an issues and it cured a few rifles.
     

    Sniper 79

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    :popcorn:

    I swap Bolt assembly's all the time if I am having issues. It is part of the elimination process. Never had an issues and it cured a few rifles.


    I barrowed a go/no go set before hitting the range with the new barrel. Not keen on blowing anything up unless it's down range.

    Might just work out with a swap though. My carbine is over gas ed and would probably benefit from a heavier bolt. That thing barks breaths fire and kicks. It's a 223 remember only gun.
     

    natdscott

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    Whose mags?

    Is the gas key VERIFIED tight?

    Where and how far is it ejecting the 5.56 brass, and into how big a group? (Great ARs group their brass as well as the bullets.)

    White Oak ports larger than 93, but don't go altering metal just yet.

    When the bolt extracts and ejects the 5.56, is it closing on an empty chamber?

    Where does the single-fed .223 casing eject relative to the 5.56?

    Who made the barrel?

    Last question: look at 4-5 of both of the fired casings. Do they have vertical scratches? Any embossed or engraved annular rings on the casings?

    -Nate
     

    Sniper 79

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    Whose mags?

    Is the gas key VERIFIED tight?

    Where and how far is it ejecting the 5.56 brass, and into how big a group? (Great ARs group their brass as well as the bullets.)

    White Oak ports larger than 93, but don't go altering metal just yet.

    When the bolt extracts and ejects the 5.56, is it closing on an empty chamber?

    Where does the single-fed .223 casing eject relative to the 5.56?

    Who made the barrel?

    Last question: look at 4-5 of both of the fired casings. Do they have vertical scratches? Any embossed or engraved annular rings on the casings?

    -Nate
    Mags are D&H and C Products like new condition ran good in this gun and one other.

    Yes key is tight.

    Two neat little piles in the snow. One straight out from ejection port probably 223. Other little pile of brass was just over my right shoulder. I scooped them up with some snow and put them in a bag. Condition of brass looks good. Just for giggles stood rife up on barrel. Dropped a spent brass in chamber. It dropped right in and I closed the bolt on it. Pulled the charging handle and it pulled right out smooth and flings it out.

    No 5.56 runs good. The .223 will fire and close on an empty chamber. Will not lock bolt back on last round.

    It is a Palmetto State 18" full rifle gas Wylde chamber gloss black finish
     
    Last edited:

    Sniper 79

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    2cg1mcp.jpg
    [/IMG]

    Only thing I see sketchy is this. The top of the barrel is hazy from gas leaking out from tube where it goes into gas block. It had a perfect ring under gas block so I think alignment was ok.

    Really disappointed. Drove tow the range twice and the snow doesn't help matters.
     

    natdscott

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    Oh ****.

    Sorry...so I thought you had a rifle gas tube AND a rifle barrel.

    Well that changes things. The port-to-muzzle distance on a rifle 18" has caused problems before because of the extremely short period between gas tube pressurization and full venting at the muzzle. Hence: mid gas.

    But hey. So 5.56 is going to FIVE o'clock?
     

    Sniper 79

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    Oh ****.

    Sorry...so I thought you had a rifle gas tube AND a rifle barrel.

    Well that changes things. The port-to-muzzle distance on a rifle 18" has caused problems before because of the extremely short period between gas tube pressurization and full venting at the muzzle. Hence: mid gas.

    But hey. So 5.56 is going to FIVE o'clock?

    It sure is a rifle barrel and a rifle gas tube. 18" pipe with a full rifle gas

    yes I would say 5.56 was shooting out at 5ish, 3ish for the 223. Neat little pile could almost pick them up with one handful. 5.56 was a bit more spread out.
     
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