How to accurize a Rem 700?

[teddy12b]

I've got a Rem 700 308 with a 22" 5r barrel in the magpul hunter stock. All stock from the factory except I put in a Timney, APA LB2 brake, and had some stippling done on the stock. Right now the rifle is accurate enough to fill any practical needs for field or target practice, but I'd really like to get the groups under 1/2" because it drives me a little crazy. Currently my round count is just north of 800rds, all have been Fed GMM 168gr & 175gr with 50 - 60 of the 800rds being hand loads looking for the perfect load.

What all is involved with taking the rifle to a gunsmith and having them swap out a more accurate barrel?

I'm not going to pretend like I'm a Rem 700 mechanic, or that I'd know what's involved. All I know is that I can shoot better than my rifle is showing. I have two other rifles that I can print smaller groups with if/when I need to remind myself I can do better.

I'm throwing myself at the mercy of gunsmithing gurus and asking what can I do to tighten up groups? Any gunsmith recommendations?

 

[red_zr24x4]

Bed the action, free float the barrel, hand load

 

[Clay Pigeon]

Yep, learn to reload.

 

[avboiler11]

Consistent 1/2 MOA five-shot groups from a mass produced, factory barreled rifle using factory match ammunition is not a realistic expectation.

Consistent 1/2 MOA five-shot groups from a mass produced, factory barreled rifle with tuned, precisely-loaded handloads also isn’t realistic...but it can get you closer.

You can always send it to Isaac Frank @ Southern Indiana Precision and have him true the action and hang a cut rifled Hawk Hill barrel on, then feed the rifle a steady diet of 168 ELD-Ms over 44.4-45.8gr Varget (or 175 SMKs or 185gr Juggernauts over a grain or two less)....and you’ll likely be in the ballpark.

Isaac built me a 6 Dasher that I believe is capable of true, consistent, “all day every day” 1/2 MOA accuracy...but I’m the weak link in the system.

 

[natdscott]

Listen to avboiler.

The barrel is the beating heart of a rifle.

Your 5R is currently slightly proud of the lion in Wizard of Oz...at least as it regards 1/2 MOA 10 round groups.

 

[1911ly]

AllenM in Avon did my 300wm. Zero regrets. He can do mild to wild builds.

 

[NKBJ]

Bed the action, free float the barrel, hand load

Yeah, very good advice. By all means do this and then decide whether your achievements are good enough.
If it is not good enough then it gets into the realm of how much do you want to spend.
If you start making your own bullet jackets, well, best seek counseling and professional help while there's still time.

 

[55fairlane]

Gunsmith..... Mark Penrod North Manchester.......or Jerry Johnson in [COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)]Churubusco[/COLOR]

Bed the action, free float the barrel, hand load.....way to go......bedding the action isn't hard,nor is free floating the barrel......you can do this yourself......and save some cash


You may want to go over to accurate shooter......the information your after is there, those guys know how to make a rifle perform

Aaron

 

[AllenM]

If you are going to go as far as to rebarrel the rifle, then also plan on having the receiver blueprinted at the same time. Along with some bolt work, it will cost a few bucks but to get consistent 1/2" groups that is the place to start

 

[teddy12b]

As far as handloading goes, I've been trying that and haven't really gotten all that great of results.

I made this target because it was something I could quickly and easily create and print off at work. Factory ammo examples in the column all the way to the left. Then I took and handloaded all the different groups to the right. Currently, I've been repeating the handloads of 42.0gr of 4064 of Sierra 175gr matchkings. I have more work to do, but handloading hasn't exactly landed me on an amazing load yet that I can really say that I'm happy with.


For example, in this picture below there's two groups. The bottom group was me rushing and doing a poor job. The top group is where I took my time and tried a little harder. The top group is ultimately what I'm looking for. I don't think I can shoot much better than that and practically I don't see a whole lot of practicality gained by it other than benchrest competitions.

As far as free floating the barrel goes, it's in a magpul hunter stock and there's a lot of space around the barrel so the rifle has that going for it. I'm certainly not opposed to bedding the action, although I've never done that before. I'd say the same for any kind of barrel swapping and machining. That stuff is where I get lost. On a bolt gun I've never done much more than swapping stocks or triggers, along with handloads. Usually if that doesn't get it I sell the gun.

 

[natdscott]

I recommend you read up on what it is "blueprinting" means. Some Smith's, and a LOT of "smiths" have differing opinions of what that should mean, annnnnnd how much to charge for it.

A dude in his shop might just lap the lugs, and polish out the action face. If you have a straight receiver, maybe this is plenty.

Meanwhile, Lester Bruno, for example, faces the receiver and lug abutments square, recuts the threads, and laps the bolt lugs in...he has a lot of BR Hall of Fame points.

At the upper end, somebody like Jim Borden (when he was doing them) would do all of the above except lapping. He would also bore, ream, and threadmill the scope mount holes and pin on your scope base. He would maybe Bush the bolt face and square it, turn the firing pin tip, singlepoint both front and rear of lugs, rebore the action, fit bushings front and rear on the bolt to take up the annular space in the action bore, recut the primary extraction cam and/or move the bolt handle and probably TIG it in place, check firing pin binding in the shroud, replace and/or surface grind or lathe turn your recoil lug, possibly pin the recoil lug to the action, and polish the lug raceways. Maybe more.

So there's some variability.


Greg Tannel is a good place to start learning what CAN be done.

 

[avboiler11]

IMO:

I'm seeing a lot of horizontal stringing, which is quite possibly caused by the shooter and not the rifle/load combination.

Half grain increments are too large for a 308-sized case. I like the OCW method for load development, which is basically 10% increases (0.4gr in this case). That extra tenth could make a big difference.

41.7gr 4064 is the M118LR/MK316 charge weight with a 175gr SMK, I believe that's also what 175gr FGMM is loaded with. Not a bad place to start in terms of charge weight & OAL as a baseline. To that point, if you look at your 41.0-42.0gr 175gr SMK groups you can see how the center of each group corresponds and begins to shift to about 7 o'clock of bullseye. I think you've got promising results there if you shoot a OCW, then start tweaking OAL.

I also think you should try a pound of Varget...especially with the 185 Juggs.

 

[teddy12b]

I recommend you read up on what it is "blueprinting" means. Some Smith's, and a LOT of "smiths" have differing opinions of what that should mean, annnnnnd how much to charge for it.

Greg Tannel is a good place to start.

This is exacting why I'm asking for advice. I've watched youtube videos on some of this stuff and while I hear that voice in the back of my head saying I should try it myself, there's also the voice of reason telling me I should have a real pro do it for the hundredth time who will do a much better job than me. I also get that annoying voice telling me I should sell the gun along with a kidney and go buy a GA Precision and be done with it.

 

[Traav]

What optic, base, and rings are you using?

 

[teddy12b]

I've tried to get my neanderthal brain around the OCW loading concept. I've read and watched videos about and ultimately I keep getting confused and going about it the old fashioned way. I do want to do more load development within a grain or two of my 42.0 group that I got.

The scope is a Vortex PST gen 1 6-24x ffp, in vortex precision rings, and I'm not positive, but I want to say the base was a Badger but I dont remember.

 

[phylodog]

I'd bolt that barreled action into a better chassis system and see how it performs before moving forward. It isn't likely to turn a factory 700 into a consistent half minute performer but it might get you closer and you may make up some more with loads. I've seen more than one Rem700 with a factory 5R barrel shoot extremely well.

Just out of curiosity, what is your cleaning routine?

 

[teddy12b]

For cleaning this is probably a weak point in my habits, but I'll run a bore snake through the barrel two or three times every 200 rounds.

I should have also mentioned earlier, but I ran a bore snake through a few times between each shot for the first 10. I did t do a full bigtime break in, but a bore snake between shots early on.

 

[AllenM]

I am no rifle expert and have nor am I trying to sell my services. I only offer these photos as a partial reference of what can go into accurizing a 700. This is 1911ly's rifle with a couple before and after photos of what we did to the receiver before re barreling it. Also did a new bolt making sure the face and lugs were square to everything as well. A lot of work goes into doing up the receiver right.
I do agree with Phylodog as well, The magpul stocks are not very rigid and only marginally better then some of the factory stocks you may get some accuracy from a better stock.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/146955223@N04/albums/72157675718023494/with/32303244752/


Actually original link to his build

300wm Rem 700 by Allen Moore | Photobucket

 

[phylodog]

For cleaning this is probably a weak point in my habits, but I'll run a bore snake through the barrel two or three times every 200 rounds.

I should have also mentioned earlier, but I ran a bore snake through a few times between each shot for the first 10. I did t do a full bigtime break in, but a bore snake between shots early on.

You've got enough rounds through that barrel that cleaning it could be leading to inconsistency. I don't put anything down the bore other than bullets until my rifle lets me know it's time. Once you've established a baseline of the accuracy potential try leaving the bore alone until you notice the accuracy degrading. You can pull the bolt, wipe it down and lube but try leaving the bore alone for awhile and see if that helps a bit.

 

[natdscott]

Yuppers.

Factory barrels tend to need cleaning more frequently simply do to lower grade internal finishes, and annular machining marks left in the bore from the gundrill. As such, the barrels grab a lot of copper, and fill up fairly quickly.

A great quality custom barrel will almost NOT copper foul for a good while in the middle of it's life. They can't be fired FOREVER without losing practical accuracy, but many of them can do 200+ rounds before you see accuracy drop off. (with the noted exception of Benchrest competition)

High grade barrels will typically copper foul just a little for somewhere between 25-100 rounds, and continue to pick up velocity for that time period as well. Somewhere in there, they'll quit fouling with much copper at ALL, and reach peak speed.

From there, it is smooth sailing until it isn't anymore.

That's a simple way of saying that:
--when a barrel starts throwing bright blue patches where it's always been just tinged lightly blue,
---and speed is dropping off by the 5's and 10's of fps (ie: your dope starts to require more elevation, and it's not environmental effect or a change in load)...

...best be getting a barrel ordered, cause she's dying in front of you. Have a little ceremony, bury her in the backyard, and move on.


-Nate