1911 Counter Productive Mods

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  • Trapper Jim

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    Dec 18, 2012
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    Most of you know i am a traditional old fart stuck in my ways. However we are blessed with the abundance of today's cosmetic millwork on the precious 1911. Much has been done that has been very cool. However there are many things that seem counter productive. Naked Rails for one, recessed slide stop for another, MIM parts that fail, décor milled hoods, open slide cuts to name a few. Yes some of these are cool depending on individual taste but consider balance on Naked Rails. If you run a WML the 1913 is useful, if you don't it is a huge PITA. It affects balance, presentation and transition times to name a few. The recessed stop eliminates my finger register to confirm both frame position and that the slide stop is fully seated not to mention that the bearing surface has been reduced because of the chamfer. If MIM is as good as tool steel then why don't we just use tool steel. MIM has gotten better and may someday be better, but I still see failures in the field. Milled hoods may look good but why give up the material? Same thing with slide cuts (competition aside) why allow dirt and such into the innards? Some of these items can be useful in sport application but questionable for the street. To sum it up, the altered states of the 1911 compare to the kids putting plastic stocks on a Lever Gun. Shame. What does INGO think?
     

    churchmouse

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    Interesting and does require good responses.
    No Tupperware idiocy here please.

    I have done a lot to mine Cosmetically and as it serves no real purpose as to function I guess you could see it as unnecessary. But to me the 1911 can also be art. Art that serves a purpose.
    No naked rails etc. we do take as much weight as possible when it seems to fit the objectives.
     

    Expat

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    I am not big on the slide guts. When I first saw them, not being very bright, I couldn't figure out the purpose. Then I read it was to lighten up the gun some... umkay. Everyone has a different taste in things. Look at how many people lined up to get the new X-Five from Sig with the slide cuts.
    The MIM issue... I am no expert, but from what I have read, some do it better than others. We know that MIM is supposedly used in very high stress situations in other industries. I guess not knowing is why I would feel better knowing it is all actual tool steel. Some makers, even high end, use cast parts which I don't know are a whole lot better than the MIM.
    I don't think I have any 1911 with a rail on it. My bedside pistol does with a mounted light, but that is a Sig P226.
     

    churchmouse

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    I am not big on the slide guts. When I first saw them, not being very bright, I couldn't figure out the purpose. Then I read it was to lighten up the gun some... umkay. Everyone has a different taste in things. Look at how many people lined up to get the new X-Five from Sig with the slide cuts.
    The MIM issue... I am no expert, but from what I have read, some do it better than others. We know that MIM is supposedly used in very high stress situations in other industries. I guess not knowing is why I would feel better knowing it is all actual tool steel. Some makers, even high end, use cast parts which I don't know are a whole lot better than the MIM.
    I don't think I have any 1911 with a rail on it. My bedside pistol does with a mounted light, but that is a Sig P226.

    I have 2 1911's with rails. 1 I added and 1 is factory. They both have lights on them and live in strategic locations in the bedroom. None of the EDC's have lights.

    1st Mod I do is dump the MIM crap and fit up tool steel ignition parts. They just respond to and hold better as to mods. MIM seems to get mushy after extended use.

    This was an experiment for my personal search in how much one can do and get away with. This gun went through 4 levels. The 1st was ignition and the optic mount.
    Then we lost our minds and it was fun. All of it. The end result is a 1911 that shoots as flat as any gun I own, accurate as heck and a ball to shoot. It came out of the box as a brand new SA Range Officer. AllenM did a lot to this gun. The slide has been lightened a lot. Notice no rear sight mount. Tri-topped. Angle cuts. Underneath if you pull the slide you can see the extractor. The sides of the slide have been shaved. No roll marks.

    kCcv0ru.jpg
     

    drillsgt

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    I have 2 1911's with rails. 1 I added and 1 is factory. They both have lights on them and live in strategic locations in the bedroom. None of the EDC's have lights.

    1st Mod I do is dump the MIM crap and fit up tool steel ignition parts. They just respond to and hold better as to mods. MIM seems to get mushy after extended use.

    This was an experiment for my personal search in how much one can do and get away with. This gun went through 4 levels. The 1st was ignition and the optic mount.
    Then we lost our minds and it was fun. All of it. The end result is a 1911 that shoots as flat as any gun I own, accurate as heck and a ball to shoot. It came out of the box as a brand new SA Range Officer. AllenM did a lot to this gun. The slide has been lightened a lot. Notice no rear sight mount. Tri-topped. Angle cuts. Underneath if you pull the slide you can see the extractor. The sides of the slide have been shaved. No roll marks.

    kCcv0ru.jpg

    Holy cow, how thick are those grips?
     

    Leadeye

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    I like the 1911 for what it is, but then I don't shoot competitively with one. I'll change out grips to improve the artistic look, but try to keep everything with a period style.
     

    Trapper Jim

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    I have 2 1911's with rails. 1 I added and 1 is factory. They both have lights on them and live in strategic locations in the bedroom. None of the EDC's have lights.

    1st Mod I do is dump the MIM crap and fit up tool steel ignition parts. They just respond to and hold better as to mods. MIM seems to get mushy after extended use.

    This was an experiment for my personal search in how much one can do and get away with. This gun went through 4 levels. The 1st was ignition and the optic mount.
    Then we lost our minds and it was fun. All of it. The end result is a 1911 that shoots as flat as any gun I own, accurate as heck and a ball to shoot. It came out of the box as a brand new SA Range Officer. AllenM did a lot to this gun. The slide has been lightened a lot. Notice no rear sight mount. Tri-topped. Angle cuts. Underneath if you pull the slide you can see the extractor. The sides of the slide have been shaved. No roll marks.

    kCcv0ru.jpg


    Very Nice Master Blaster. Back in the day I raced a few of these in .38 Super and 9x21. Special Purpose Irons
     

    jcj54

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    Aug 24, 2013
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    No offense, but I find full length recoil guides worthless. I also have never needed a beavertail grip safety and find the ones with the lump just above the mainspring housing uncomfortable to shoot. I agree with the MIM concerns. If a part was designed originally to be made with that process, OK, but a part designed over 100 years ago may not lend itself to being made that way without some issues cropping up.
     

    churchmouse

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    No offense, but I find full length recoil guides worthless. I also have never needed a beavertail grip safety and find the ones with the lump just above the mainspring housing uncomfortable to shoot. I agree with the MIM concerns. If a part was designed originally to be made with that process, OK, but a part designed over 100 years ago may not lend itself to being made that way without some issues cropping up.

    Interesting. If you (Like me) found the bump to be helpful then what would be the issue with it. I like them. With me grip they do serve a definite purpose. Strokes for folks I guess. Personal preferences.

    I could argue the guide rod thing at length. Call me crazy (seriously, you can) but I have proven more than a few times that the shooter can tell if one is in the gun or the standard plug is in place. A totally non-scientific test but we did have graph paper with us. This may not be a 100% thing.

    In these discussions/debates it usually boils down to spending the money. Not always but usually. Again, personal preferences.

    Improving on a 100 year old design is what we do. Are we still using the same drive trains folks used 100 years ago. But I digress.
     

    churchmouse

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    The shock buffs are another thing that seems to be something that most don't see the need for...

    I have this in only 1 of my guns. 2011 in 10mm that was pinning the ears bag on the guide rod when we run full house loads in it. The buffer stopped this. Beyond that I agree.
     

    Sigblitz

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    I now have several 1911's. I just got back my A1 from warranty work.

    I don't like the buffers. They eventually get shredded up and find their way into the gun.

    I'm not a fan of MIM parts.

    Solid triggers don't catch lint, and the weight savings is negligible.

    I can't [STRIKE]press check[/STRIKE] lose a finger with a full length guide rod.

    I don't like the grip safety.

    I like having the ability to change sights.
     
    Last edited:

    Steel and wood

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    This is just one great thing about a 1911 you can make it personal. I had Allen work on my last year he took my range officer and just made it perfect for me.
     

    88E30M50

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    I’m happy with some mods, like fitting a beaver tail grip safety with the bump. That said, I still prefer the USGI style with a grip change to suit tastes. I’m not a fan of anything other than the old vertical slide serrations. Lots of nice guns come with different serrations though, so I just need to let that one go.

    For a barbecue gun, I run mammoth ivory grips but mostly G10 of some sort on the others. The skeletal grips that let you see the mag inside seem like a good way to screw up your grip and introduce dirt into the mag well.

    I tend to be a traditionalist, so the CZ 1911A1 and DW A2s are what mostly make me happy.
     

    Tactically Fat

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    Many modifications that are done to enhance aesthetics aren't necessarily counter-productive. Counter-productive points towards reducing function (which, let's be honest, doesn't take much in a 1911).

    Modifications can be aesthetic only, aesthetic and productive, or aesthetic and counter-productive. They all have their place. But, IMO, many don't have a place on a defensive firearm.
     

    churchmouse

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    Many modifications that are done to enhance aesthetics aren't necessarily counter-productive. Counter-productive points towards reducing function (which, let's be honest, doesn't take much in a 1911).

    Modifications can be aesthetic only, aesthetic and productive, or aesthetic and counter-productive. They all have their place. But, IMO, many don't have a place on a defensive firearm.

    Man that's cold brother.....just cold.....:):
     

    Tactically Fat

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    Man that's cold brother.....just cold.....:):

    Zing!

    A 1911 CAN be a decent carry sidearm. Many of them aren't / shouldn't be.

    With the right care / cleaning / lubrication / inspection - no reason a 1911 can't be a carry gun. And then there's the higher potential for feeding issues... Again, though, that can be remedied.
     

    halfmileharry

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    Dec 2, 2010
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    I have 2 1911's with rails. 1 I added and 1 is factory. They both have lights on them and live in strategic locations in the bedroom. None of the EDC's have lights.

    1st Mod I do is dump the MIM crap and fit up tool steel ignition parts. They just respond to and hold better as to mods. MIM seems to get mushy after extended use.

    This was an experiment for my personal search in how much one can do and get away with. This gun went through 4 levels. The 1st was ignition and the optic mount.
    Then we lost our minds and it was fun. All of it. The end result is a 1911 that shoots as flat as any gun I own, accurate as heck and a ball to shoot. It came out of the box as a brand new SA Range Officer. AllenM did a lot to this gun. The slide has been lightened a lot. Notice no rear sight mount. Tri-topped. Angle cuts. Underneath if you pull the slide you can see the extractor. The sides of the slide have been shaved. No roll marks.

    kCcv0ru.jpg

    I think I saw this in the toy model section at Hobby Lobby. It looks good in the box and even better assembled.
     
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