Rough Revolver Cylinder Notches

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  • Leadeye

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    While that's a modern gun, I have old revolvers with cylinders that look much worse but still shoot very well. I would not worry about it.
     

    Salty

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    Thanks for your replies. I had read about slamming the cylinder shut "Hollywood style" might cause this but it seems like it would have to be done a lot to cause this. Is there anything a gunsmith could do to restore it? It's a 686-5 so it was made around 1998 I believe.
     

    Bosshoss

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    That is called cylinder peening.
    It is not uncommon and caused by quick double action shooting or lots of double action shooting or even fast single action shooting.
    S&W cylinders vary in hardness. I have seen some that peen in 100 rounds and other that never peen in 100's of thousands of rounds or dry fires.
    It can be repaired mechanically but not cosmetically.
    DO NOT FILE OFF THE BURRS/RAISED AREA.
    Once you remove the metal it can't be put back.
    If it is working I wouldn't worry about it.
    If it gets bad enough it will start skipping a chamber or hammer will fall between chambers.
     

    Sigblitz

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    Does the bolt fully retract at half cock, and does the cylinder start to turn at the same time at half cock?

    Does the bolt engage the cylinder at the start of the notch lead in?

    Does the paw quit turning the cylinder when the bolt engages the notch?

    Does the hammer drop the moment after the bolt engages the cylinder/ paw stops turning cylinder?
     

    walt o

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    Bosshoss has it right = fast and ferrous (SP)., momentum of cylinder rotation causing penning of the notch.
    fast cocking
     

    Sigblitz

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    Does the bolt engage the cylinder at the start of the notch lead in? Or is the bolt engaging the lagging edge of the notch? Are all the notch edges burgered up?
     

    Sigblitz

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    Could it be the bolt and paw isn't fully disengaging, where the bolt isn't fully seated in the up position when firing?
     

    Bosshoss

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    Does the bolt fully retract at half cock, and does the cylinder start to turn at the same time at half cock?

    Does the bolt engage the cylinder at the start of the notch lead in?

    Does the paw quit turning the cylinder when the bolt engages the notch?

    Does the hammer drop the moment after the bolt engages the cylinder/ paw stops turning cylinder?

    Does the bolt engage the cylinder at the start of the notch lead in? Or is the bolt engaging the lagging edge of the notch? Are all the notch edges burgered up?

    Could it be the bolt and paw isn't fully disengaging, where the bolt isn't fully seated in the up position when firing?

    ????
    A S&W revolver doesn't have a "half cock".
    On a S&W revolver the Cylinder stop( the part in the lower frame that engages the cylinder notches) retracts at the start of the trigger or hammer pull. It pops back up almost immediately and rides the cylinder around to the notch. This is what causes the "turn line" on the cylinder. This is normal and correct.
    Nothing in the action or timing causes the peening.

    Some guns just peen the notches because of the cylinder hardness and some will actually get a burr(raised area) at the bottom of the scallop(lead in to the notch) from cylinder bounce back. When this happens the cylinder stop rides the cylinder around to the scallop and drops into the scallop. When the cylinder stop slides down the scallop and hits the burr at the bottom it jumps up and hits the top edge of the other side of the notch, instead of dropping down into the notch. This can cause this damage(peening) also. Can't tell from picture if that is the case with this gun or not.
    I have fixed lots of these it is not that uncommon and it won't hurt anything until it causes cylinder skipping.
    AGAIN DO NOT REMOVE THE PEENING(BURRS) WITH A FILE OR DREMEL.
     

    Salty

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    ????
    A S&W revolver doesn't have a "half cock".
    On a S&W revolver the Cylinder stop( the part in the lower frame that engages the cylinder notches) retracts at the start of the trigger or hammer pull. It pops back up almost immediately and rides the cylinder around to the notch. This is what causes the "turn line" on the cylinder. This is normal and correct.
    Nothing in the action or timing causes the peening.

    Some guns just peen the notches because of the cylinder hardness and some will actually get a burr(raised area) at the bottom of the scallop(lead in to the notch) from cylinder bounce back. When this happens the cylinder stop rides the cylinder around to the scallop and drops into the scallop. When the cylinder stop slides down the scallop and hits the burr at the bottom it jumps up and hits the top edge of the other side of the notch, instead of dropping down into the notch. This can cause this damage(peening) also. Can't tell from picture if that is the case with this gun or not.
    I have fixed lots of these it is not that uncommon and it won't hurt anything until it causes cylinder skipping.
    AGAIN DO NOT REMOVE THE PEENING(BURRS) WITH A FILE OR DREMEL.

    Thanks again everyone for your replies. It is really hard to resist filing off the burrs, lol. Operation seems to be fine.
     

    Sigblitz

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    Ok let's not call it half cock.

    Firing in DA, the cylinder stop doesn't, or isn't supposed to, start retracting until the hammer is half way back. From there, the cylinder turns, the bolt starts engaging the cylinder where the scallop starts in front of the notch.

    I'm trying to lead the OP to diagnosing his issue. The newer Smith and Wessons suffer from late lockup. S&W doesn't consider this to be a problem. They are not the hand fitted guns they used to be.
     
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    Bosshoss

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    Ok let's not call it half cock.

    Firing in DA, the cylinder stop doesn't, or isn't supposed to, start retracting until the hammer is half way back. From there, the cylinder turns, the stop starts engaging the cylinder where the little dip starts in front of the notch.

    I'm trying to lead the OP to diagnosing his issue. The newer Smith and Wessons suffer from late lockup. S&W doesn't consider this to be a problem. They are not the hand fitted guns they used to be.

    I was trying to be nice but you seem to want to argue.
    NOTHING in your above statement is true. NOTHING

    You obviously know more about S&W revolvers than I do so knock your self out helping the OP.
     

    Sigblitz

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    Granted, I have a couple where the bolt retracts a little early, about 1/4 cocked, and the bolt hits the cylinder before the scallop. But I have some that is perfectly timed.
     

    Bosshoss

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    Granted, I have a couple where the bolt retracts a little early, about 1/4 cocked, and the bolt hits the cylinder before the scallop. But I have some that is perfectly timed.

    Nope the CYLINDER STOP starts dropping the instant the trigger is pulled and is pops back up right after the cylinder starts turning. There is no way the cylinder stop can stay down until the scallop on the next notch gets to it. Not possible on a modern S&W revolver.
     

    Sigblitz

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    Nope the CYLINDER STOP starts dropping the instant the trigger is pulled and is pops back up right after the cylinder starts turning. There is no way the cylinder stop can stay down until the scallop on the next notch gets to it. Not possible on a modern S&W revolver.

    How would you stage the trigger?
     

    Bosshoss

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    How would you stage the trigger?

    The cylinder stop drops and cylinder turns. The cylinder stop pops back up right after the cylinder starts turning(this is why you get a turn ring as the cylinder stop rides the cylinder all the way around). It rides the cylinder around to the next notch where it drops in the notch before the hammer falls if the gun is timed properly.
    You have to stop as soon as the cylinder stop pops into the notch and before the hammer falls.
    A double action revolver should be pulled steady and smoothly all the way through. Staging a trigger is inconsistent and to slow. Might as well cock it single action.
     

    Sigblitz

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    The ones I have where the bolt drops early and comes up early, it's easy to over travel the trigger because I have to put more force on it mid pull to overcome the drag.
     

    Sigblitz

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    I've noticed on the newer revolvers, the bolt snaps back up like it's being spring released. On the older revolvers, it goes down and comes back up at the same rate. I just realized this is apples and oranges.

    If the newer revolvers are released like the first example, I'm confused why they're known to suffer from late lockup, because the bolt would be riding the cylinder.
     
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