Heavier weight or heavier spring?

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  • Scuba591

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    Jan 22, 2013
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    I have a BCG not going into battery issue.. Back story: I assembled a new rifle with a PSA lower with lower parts kit and purchased a Bear Creek Arsenal complete upper assembly. I have a ARFX skeleton stock with a standard spring and weight. My first time at the range, the BCG would not go into battery. The forward assist would not do the job either. I could hand load a round into the chamber and get a 60 percent success ratio with full battery. I was using PMags and aluminum mags. I had to use a tool to extract the round by prying back while pulling on the charging handle, when the BCG failed. I tried a different lower with the same results. I tried a different BCG and charging handle and still had issues.
    Fast forward: I sent the upper back to Bear Creek Arsenal. It came back today. Same issue after they inspected, cleaned, hand loaded 12 rounds, mag loaded 12 rounds and fired 12 rounds. All extracted fine. There was no mention of gas issues from the MFG... heck it never got to that point as I could not chamber a round.
    I am looking for suggestions and was thinking a beefier spring or weight. It will not go into full battery when I try to chamber when the rifle is pointed up. It will go into battery if the rifle is pointing down. So, maybe gravity has something to do with it?
    What say you INGO..
    Oh and thanks in advance for both information and jokes alike.
     

    rosejm

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    When you say it won't go into battery, how far out are we talking there?
    (Pictures can often be priceless in internet troubleshooting)
    Round not chambered?
    Bolt not rotated fully?


    Your description of extraction issues, sounds like there is some issue with alignment.
    Combine that with the FA not helping things, and you've got some interference there.

    Adding more spring/buffer isn't likely to overcome something that the FA isn't...
     

    churchmouse

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    With that mixmaster of parts I see an issue with the chamber either not sized properly and needing reamed or (as I have done with that level parts rifle) needing a serious cleaning with a brass brush on a cordless drill. Happened 2 times to me. 1 was my last run with in that price point and the problem was solved and again assembling the "Box-0-Parts rifle for a friend. Both had the exact problem you laid out.
     

    Chance

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    I would find someone with the tools to check the headspace. Be very careful trying to diagnose the problem with live ammo. AR has no firing pin spring and can “slam fire” if firing pin slams the primer when bolt closes. I have had one assembly not pass headspace check and required a different bolt to resolve the issue.
     

    Hohn

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    Will the bolt go into battery with no cartridge? If so, you know it’s probably not a major misalignment issue like gas key not going over gas tube. If it only fails with an actual round in the bolt, then it can likely only be an ammo or chamber issue.

    Sometimes the sideways loading of the ejector pushing the cartridge sideways can deflect the bcg enough to cause a hang up in a sloppy upper.

    Neither a heavier weight nor heavier spring will fix this.
     

    ditcherman

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    In the country, hopefully.
    I would like to back up a few paces from the hair splitting parts of the conversation to the part where you say "it won't got in to battery when pointed up.....gravtiy...?"

    If it's gravity, headspace is not the place to start. I think Hohn has some good advice above, pursue just what is keeping the bolt from going into battery. Gas key, out of spec bolt or upper, etc. Another question to ask might be if something on the lower is hanging up, i.e. switch lowers.

    This is most likely not related to your problem but since there's a chance: I had bought a VLTOR spring and buffer and tube for a rifle build, replaced it with a JP Captured, and wondered why I had to cut the enclosed spacer down (no spacer for carbine, full spacer for rifle, but I had to cut for proper fit), then most recently was putting another together, looked in my box and saw a had a spring and buffer but paid no attention to the length of the buffer and didn't order one for the build. Was lucky to not blow the end out of the carbine length buffer tube at test firing.

    So anyway, if it were to be a gravity issue, you would certainly feel that soft spring. Make sure you have a carbine tube with a carbine spring, 37-39? coils for carbine and 40-41 for a rifle, and not a carbine spring in a rifle buffer tube.

    Please let us know how it turns out.
     

    Old Bear

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    I had the same issue with a mixmaster that I put together for a beater rifle. Turns out the chamber had a pretty thick coating of something (I assume rust preventative) that had dried hard, like laquer. The solution was just like CM suggested. Solvent and chamber brush in a cordless drill. After a few good scrubings, everything worked great!

    That rifle now lives with a .22 conversion kit in it for cheap practice. But, I can always but the original BCG back in it for a backup, of a backup, of a backup rifle:):
     

    Chase515

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    I have a bear creek arsenal 7.62x39 barrel I assembled with a psa stripped upper. It never fired more than one round at a time. Thinking under sized gas port hole on the barrel. Got a buddy at work that built a upper with bear creek arsenal 6.5 grendel barrel. Same problem he had to get the gas port bored out to make it run correct. I also recall he used a gas piston system on his build.
     

    Scuba591

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    All great advice. I tried switching lowers and BCG and charging handle. Not a fix. I mentioned gravity because the number of failures was less when rifle was pointed down. The bore brushing sounds like a good thing to try. I have a few BCA uppers that have been good to go. Yes, the rifle will go to full battery with an empty chamber.
     

    Scuba591

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    [video=youtube;wim3LVd8lhA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wim3LVd8lhA[/video]

    So, I'm no movie star.... Here is the video hopefully explaining the issue I'm having.
     

    BGDave

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    I know you said it is RP brand ammo. So bear with me a little.

    Remove the upper from the lower.

    With finger pressure only, try to push the bolt carrier closed.

    If it closes then try it with a case in the chamber- it will require some effort to snap the extractor over the rim.

    I'm thinking it wont go.

    Now, paint up the case with a sharpie from the bullet back and try again. Remove the case and look for scratches on the case. If there is a ring around the case - you have a chamber problem.

    Now, back to the RP cases. I don't know the source of your ammo. In times like these sometimes untrustworthy vendors will sell reloads as factory ammo. A pox be upon them. This looks like a case of improperly sized brass.

    Try these things and report back.

    For the love of God be careful using live ammo to function test ARs. You may also want to test with another lot of ammo.

    May have to edit
     

    sgthud

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    If you have switched lowers, BCG, & CH, then the issue is in the upper assembly. Not bashing on BCA, but myself and a group of others that I shoot with have had zero luck with any BCA items.

    I have built over 30 ARs with a couple being true Frankensteins (had no issues) and thought that I would give BCA a try, had too many issues with the quality control for me. One example of QC from BCA is that my friend received a complete upper from them with a fired round in the chamber that failed to extract...serious QC issues.

    My question for you is, have you tried a different upper on the PSA lower that you are using? This would be a quick check to see if it is the upper.
     

    ditcherman

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    I'm going to second case problems at this point as well. Try different ammo. Dave's advice above is good.
    Also, did you give the chamber a good cleaning?

    I would also like to add, hopefully without offending, that I am about the furthest thing from a safety ninny that you will find, but that vid had some cringe in it for me. I'm pretty cavalier. Don't know if you have neighbors or not. If not, it's just the wife (for me) but I'd rather get hauled off to jail than explain a bullet hole in the wall anyway. Taking the safety off should not make the round any easier to extract. I know the hammer can't hit the firing pin when not in battery (maybe) but we're already fooling around with live ammo here.
    Unrelated to safety, I have always found that pushing out the back pin and letting the lower swing makes the front easier to remove, I didn't even know it was possible to take a lower apart front pin first.

    The second bolt seemed to go a little smoother, but still not right. I'd try ammo.
     

    Scuba591

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    Thanks all for the suggestions. I have tried several different configurations of uppers and lowers. I have tried different ammo and will try again. I agree with the safety tips. No worries... I have no feelings left to get hurt . You are all good with me for pointing out those things. I sent the video to a tech at BCA and he emailed me back stating he thinks there is a head space issue. I’m sending it back a second time for repair or replace.
     

    Hohn

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    Invest in a go gauge. This will let you quickly determine whether the ammo is to blame. It’s about $30 for the go gauge, $50 for a go/nogo pair at times.

    An upper that easily and fully closes on the go gauge can be reasonably assumed to have an ammunition issue.
     
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