How Bill Clinton Brought Back the 1911 Pistol

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  • indykid

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    Jan 27, 2008
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    Will read later in the day, but just from the title, thank bill for saving a 1911 versus banning dozens of imports? Yes, I will read the article to see how one of the most anti-firearm presidents in history is being applauded for something to do with the venerable 1911.
     

    BluePig

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    More like unitended consequences than him actually doing something.
    If he would have gotten his way, there would be no guns whats so ever in the hands of civilians.
     

    in625shooter

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    Clint Snith covered this. During the 10 year period of the AWB he saw more 45's and revolvers at classes than before. Fast forward and Now we have a selection of 10 shot 45 (Sig 227 S&W M&P) and 7 and 8 shot revolvers.
     

    VERT

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    Seymour
    I have always theorized that if not for the AWB the .40S&W would not have existed. Think about it, after the 1988 Miami shootout the FBI wanted a bigger bullet. Yada yada, fast forward to the 90s. Slick Willy passes the AWB and all the pre-ban 9mm mags/guns get traded in on shined new for-tays. The mags were worth more then the guns and every department wanted the new powerhouse man stopping .40. (Truth is at the time the .40 was aurguably the best of the service cartridges.) People wanting new guns were restricted to 10 rounds so capacity discussion was moot. As a result the consumer bought .40 and .45.

    I still have my Clinton AWB 10 round .40 in the safe.
     

    churchmouse

    I still care....Really
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    More like unitended consequences than him actually doing something.
    If he would have gotten his way, there would be no guns whats so ever in the hands of civilians.

    I would be willing to bet that Billery already had EO's drawn up to start the process of disarming us.
     

    indiucky

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    No need for a rebirth. There are enough women and crazy old guys buying guns to keep revolvers around for a long time.

    It's summertime...Heat...The bane of plastic guns makes it's annual return to Indiana as the 40 s&w rides into the sunset...Good times...If one lives long enough one can see what's old become the latest rage again...

    :)
     

    in625shooter

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    I have always theorized that if not for the AWB the .40S&W would not have existed. Think about it, after the 1988 Miami shootout the FBI wanted a bigger bullet. Yada yada, fast forward to the 90s. Slick Willy passes the AWB and all the pre-ban 9mm mags/guns get traded in on shined new for-tays. The mags were worth more then the guns and every department wanted the new powerhouse man stopping .40. (Truth is at the time the .40 was aurguably the best of the service cartridges.) People wanting new guns were restricted to 10 rounds so capacity discussion was moot. As a result the consumer bought .40 and .45.

    I still have my Clinton AWB 10 round .40 in the safe.

    There might be some of that but being I was in LE of some sort since 1986 my observation was most departments were already on the switch to 9 right when the CHP adopted the 40 Cal 4006. Then they all wanted 40 because there was some exaggerated failures with the first generation of 9mm. Fast forward to 1995 ish there was some interest in the 357 Sig when it came out but most stayed with the 40.
     

    VERT

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    There might be some of that but being I was in LE of some sort since 1986 my observation was most departments were already on the switch to 9 right when the CHP adopted the 40 Cal 4006. Then they all wanted 40 because there was some exaggerated failures with the first generation of 9mm. Fast forward to 1995 ish there was some interest in the 357 Sig when it came out but most stayed with the 40.

    LE may have very well transitioned to .40 or .357 sig because that is what the Feds were doing. While LE certainly influences acceptance of a cartridge it does not by itself account for the popularity of a cartridge. Departments were trading in guns (revolvers, high capacity pre-ban 9mm) that were resold to an eager consumer and acquiring new .40s for very little cost. It just made economic sense to get the newest gear. Consumers followed suit.

    My opinion is the sunset of the AWB led to the reaceptance of 9mm. Plus the 9mm cartridge has benefitted from new loads. A LE department today can choose the less costly, lower recoil 9mm and still get a bullet to perform to an acceptable standard. Guns are cheap, ammo is expensive. Influenced by this the consumer now wants 9mm as well for the same reasons. Now we can't log onto INGO without seeing a ".40 hater" thread. Shame really because it is a fine cartridge with a good service record.

    1911s and revolvers are awesome!!! They will always be awesome!!! Bill didn't save the 1911, he temporarily took the shine from the wonder nine.
     
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    Excalibur

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    Anyone else in the school of thought that "knock down power" is a myth? the .45 is a potent round, but the idea that it's so powerful, it knocks down things is a bit exaggerated.
     

    VERT

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    Anyone else in the school of thought that "knock down power" is a myth? the .45 is a potent round, but the idea that it's so powerful, it knocks down things is a bit exaggerated.

    Firearms in general don't knock things down. Does the round hit solid objects like steel plates harder them 9mm? Yes. If limited to 10 rounds does it make sense for handguns to chamber a larger round or for the gun to get smaller? Again yes.
     

    Excalibur

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    Firearms in general don't knock things down. Does the round hit solid objects like steel plates harder them 9mm? Yes. If limited to 10 rounds does it make sense for handguns to chamber a larger round or for the gun to get smaller? Again yes.

    Technically even if you have a mag restriction, it doesn't mean go .45 is better. People still handle a 9mm better than a .45, full size or small. If you chamber a 1911 in 9mm, then the weight of the gun make the recoil of the round feel even better. Not saying you should go to a smaller gun because of wasted spare for rounds that you don't have. The handling of a full size gun in 9mm is still good. The only down size is that 10 round limit
     

    JAL

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    I don't buy in to the article's premise. The cause and effect just isn't there for me. The M1911/A1 has always had a mystique, as with the P08 Luger, M1873 Colt .45 Artillery (5.5") SAA, Walther P38, and Walther PPK (to name a few others). Public perception isn't always rational. In spite of exceptionally well-documented and very accurate factual details (findings of fact), the FBI's seriously flawed conclusions drawn from them about being out-gunned in the 1986 Dade debacle didn't help matters. It was the incident that prompted S&W creating the .40 S&W at the behest of the FBI. IMO, the incident's flawed conclusions that the FBI used to justify the .40 S&W did more to popularize pistols in calibers more powerful than the .38 Special and 9mm parabellum than Teflon Bill's AWB.

    Nevertheless, the 1911 .45 ACP was never in danger of falling into obscurity, and it continues to have an aura of "knock down" power, as if any handgun bullet could literally knock someone over, or push them backward (nor will a 12 ga. with #00 shot). Only works in Hollywood with their fantastical Movie Physics in which BGs get blown out through plate glass windows by pistol, revolver and shotgun rounds. Only the concussion from an explosion of substantial size and sufficient proximity can do that. "Stopping" power would be a better characterization of incapacitation, and even then, current .45 ACP loads are marginally more effective than 9mm or .40 S&W under most circumstances, all the energy and bullet diameter minutiae aside. I've seen countless YouTube videos regarding penetrating power and energy dissipation using all manner and combinations of gallon water jugs, gelatin, drywall, 1/2" pine board, denim layers, 18 and 20 ga. mild sheet steel, and automotive safety glass.

    I concluded long ago that a 95 grain .380 ACP round with a solid COM hit is sufficient to stop an assailant that isn't wearing body armor, or with reams of printer paper duct taped around his torso (FMJ or JHP, take your pick; I prefer JHP). Head shots aren't required unless there's body armor. Disciplined fire with deliberately targeted shots is the most important factor to ending the fight quickly.

    IMO, the 1968 Gun Control Act and its "Saturday Night Special" provisions had a much bigger impact on the firearms industry's handgun segment and consumer handgun market in the U.S. Read about them, the "Ring of Fire Companies" and "Junk Guns" here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday_night_special

    John
     
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