P320 Recall? Uhoh

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  • BehindBlueI's

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    There have been hints from some insiders on this for a while. The P320 passes the standard drop tests, such as the California testing, but there have been real world discharges from falls from greater heights. If you drop it from waist high, you're good. Drop it from chest high, you're probably good. Drop it from a surrender position with hands over your head, maybe or maybe not good depending on what it hits and at what angle.

    The individual who told me about some of the issues was skirting an NDA and didn't give me much detail as to the why, or even if the why is known, just that the issue existed. I believe in his integrity, though, and have no reason to doubt what he did tell me.

    This is strictly speculation on my part, but I wonder if the trigger is getting enough momentum to press itself when subjected to the harder falls and at the correct angle. I don't know enough about the guts or the problems to say anything with confidence. Glock's trigger safety addresses the trigger momentum issue, though, as it moves in a different plane than the trigger. Something with the momentum to press the trigger safety wouldn't press the trigger and vice versa.
     

    Expat

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    shootersix

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    I am glad you posted that. In reading some of the original articles about Dallas PD, I was confused. They wanted a recall because of drop discharges but then at the end, they say there had not been a drop discharge at Dallas PD.

    id have to say, that sig will get a lot of hate from the "glock fan boys", but the best way to say it is this...."DON'T DROP ANY GUN!"

    I'd still rather carry either of my 320's over just about any striker fired gun! and guess what...I will!
     

    M67

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    Anything can fail, in the land of stupid law suits and everyone trying to CYA, it may seem like a red flag in their manual but I really can't fault Sig for putting that in their owner's manual.

    I extremely doubt there is any issues with the pistol, but anything can happen, there are "bad guns" out there, and I think the Dallas PD is over reacting
     

    Taylor22

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    I’m of the opinion that DPD is doing it solely as a cya due to the “newness” of the P320. You don’t see agencies that issue Glocks pull them out of service when someone has a ND, much less just the speculation of one.:rolleyes:
     

    shootersix

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    the first handgun I ever bought (a long time ago) was a ruger p-85 (way back in 89), and ruger had a safety recall on it (ruger's curse) because one (yes 1) had a firing pin break, and when the owner put on the hammer drop safety, the gun fired, because of that, ruger had a mandatory recall of all p85's and made changes to the gun, they changed the name to the p89, and everyone that was already in production the roll stamp was changed to p85 mk2, and if your gun was sent in to be updated with the new safety, your safety lever was marked MK2

    why am I saying this?....because at the same time, glock had a accidental discharge that was never mentioned
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    I don't doubt Bruce Gray's knowledge or experience in the slightest. However, like he says guns are individuals. You can buy a dozen and throw against the wall and what you've shown is those dozen can be thrown against the wall at whatever angle they happened to hit at.

    This conversation reminds me a lot of when information about IMPD's issues with the first run of Glock 17Ms came out. The Internet decided it was a lie, that the armorer must have messed with them and reassembled them wrong, etc. etc. Officers were intentionally destroying them because they wanted to be issued Sigs. All kinds of ridiculous claims, but whatever it took to prevent "Glock perfection" from being in question. Then it was "the FBI didn't notice it in their testing"...yet did the FBI guns have the same internals? Gun manufacturers change small parts without notice.

    Don't get wrapped up in identifying with a brand. Every manufacturer out there is using you as a beta tester, makes lemons, etc.
     

    in625shooter

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    I don't doubt Bruce Gray's knowledge or experience in the slightest. However, like he says guns are individuals. You can buy a dozen and throw against the wall and what you've shown is those dozen can be thrown against the wall at whatever angle they happened to hit at.

    This conversation reminds me a lot of when information about IMPD's issues with the first run of Glock 17Ms came out. The Internet decided it was a lie, that the armorer must have messed with them and reassembled them wrong, etc. etc. Officers were intentionally destroying them because they wanted to be issued Sigs. All kinds of ridiculous claims, but whatever it took to prevent "Glock perfection" from being in question. Then it was "the FBI didn't notice it in their testing"...yet did the FBI guns have the same internals? Gun manufacturers change small parts without notice.

    Don't get wrapped up in identifying with a brand. Every manufacturer out there is using you as a beta tester, makes lemons, etc.

    ^^^THIS^^^

    Also whenever anything happens it's always exaggerated 100 fold (Glock 40 KB etc( but anytime e an agency is involved it gets even more play. You have people (most not even involved) putting their spin on it. Then a big department like Dallas or any FED agency the U ion will stir their stuff.

    Another example was Portland Police and I believe LASD had issues with Glocks and specifically Glock 21's not firing. When the smoke cleared (as every onter et comment but people not there) it was traced to a few guns that users oiled the firing pin channel causing the dreaded hydraulic keeping g the firing pin from consistently striking the primer with enough force.

    And back when I was a USAF CATM troop and the M9 conversion the whole slide separation crisis. The Navy had 6 (6 out of 300,000) that had an issue but to hear people talk everyone claimed to have witnessed it.

    Point is I'd buy a Sig 320 with no worries.

    Wether they are Cops, Military or private citizens there will always be "that guy" that you leave alone for 5 minutes with an anvil and a sponge the anvil will be tore up and it won't be their fault.
     

    Usmccookie

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    Well for what it's worth. I had my 320 on me when I get into a bike accident. Not bad just violent. Gun didn't discharge, a little worse for wear but still runs like perfection. Imo, people are just sensitive to their gun not being the best, and take any shot available at the competition. Plain and simple gun snowflakes
     

    BE Mike

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    There have been hints from some insiders on this for a while. The P320 passes the standard drop tests, such as the California testing, but there have been real world discharges from falls from greater heights. If you drop it from waist high, you're good. Drop it from chest high, you're probably good. Drop it from a surrender position with hands over your head, maybe or maybe not good depending on what it hits and at what angle.

    The individual who told me about some of the issues was skirting an NDA and didn't give me much detail as to the why, or even if the why is known, just that the issue existed. I believe in his integrity, though, and have no reason to doubt what he did tell me.

    This is strictly speculation on my part, but I wonder if the trigger is getting enough momentum to press itself when subjected to the harder falls and at the correct angle. I don't know enough about the guts or the problems to say anything with confidence. Glock's trigger safety addresses the trigger momentum issue, though, as it moves in a different plane than the trigger. Something with the momentum to press the trigger safety wouldn't press the trigger and vice versa.
    Your speculation doesn't help clarify the claims of a gun design problem. I certainly wouldn't trust a police rumor mill. That being said, I'll wait for more reliable information before I'll throw away my Sig P320. There may be a problem, but there may not be a problem. I worked with an officer who filed a written report that stated he burned a hole in the seat of a patrol car. Since he was a body builder and health nut, there was a question of whether or not he was a regular smoker. When the mechanics put the vehicle on a lift, one mechanic exclaimed, "That must have been one strong cigarette to have gone all the way through the floor board!" The sheriff didn't fire the officer for the ND with his service revolver, he fired him for lying.
     

    BE Mike

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    Sounds like a whispering campaign.
    Different groups have motives to knock one thing or another. I'm sure Sig has a lot of companies sitting as spectators in the arena that would be very glad to give a thumbs down. There are also a lot of fan boys that would jump at any chance to knock some other firearm or company. There are others that are looking to appear to be "insiders" to build up their reputations. Cops are some of the worst rumor mongers, followed by certain gun people (I've heard some real wild tales from them, especially during the last ammo/ reloading component shortages). Ladies' garden clubs aren't even in the running. In the end, cooler heads will prevail.
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    Your speculation doesn't help clarify the claims of a gun design problem. I certainly wouldn't trust a police rumor mill. That being said, I'll wait for more reliable information before I'll throw away my Sig P320. There may be a problem, but there may not be a problem.

    I don't post based on "the police rumor mill" but am lucky to have met and corroborated with people inside the gun manufacturing and testing realms. There is a lot of data that never gets made public, due to NDAs, due to agencies not wanting to hurt relationships with manufacturers, due to consultants not talking out of school and not getting another consulting gig, and due to people just not being interested in shouting to the world what's going on. This is not unique to the firearms industry. When I worked in IT, we had actuarial data for failure rates of various computers and components. The public had no idea what the (high) failure rate of a Toshiba 56k modems was (yes, it's been a little while) but the warranty companies sure did. And that information was something used in house or was sold, not something freely given to everyone to make an educated computer purchase decision on. If you didn't, well, you relied on the public domain. The quality of that sort of data vs data gathered by some "Consumer Reports" model of buying a few and testing them yourself, or relying on free information, should seem pretty obvious.

    Knowing what I know, if I wanted a P320 I'd buy one. The risk is miniscule but does exist. I would simply treat it like a free floating firing pin weapon. I wouldn't store it loaded on a shelf in an in-wall unit above shoulder level, for example, but would have no issue storing a Glock the same way.
     

    Kirk Freeman

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    Knowing what I know, if I wanted a P320 I'd buy one. The risk is miniscule but does exist. I would simply treat it like a free floating firing pin weapon. I wouldn't store it loaded on a shelf in an in-wall unit above shoulder level, for example, but would have no issue storing a Glock the same way.

    Oh, great, now I can't hide my SIG320 in the bathroom ceiling panel along with the 25 keys of cocaine that I stolen from the Russian mob just like in Sleepless.

    Thanks a lot, BBI, for being much a spoil sport.
     
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