Trigger pull:risk vs reward

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  • Egldriver

    Plinker
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    5   0   0
    Aug 15, 2010
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    I appreciate a nice light trigger pull as much as anyone but having done idpa/uspsa/steel challlenge for about a year I am questioning the utility of a sub 4 pound trigger. I am wondering if anyone thinks they benefit from such light triggers in action shooting? Personally I think the potential of ripping off a shot when I don't intend to (as in before the sight picture is set) far outweighs the advantage when the adrenaline is up. I also wonder if in a self defense situation if anyone will notice the difference between 4 pounds and 8 pounds when the adrenaline is really up. I think a crisp trigger and short reset is very important leading to my shooting 1911's.
     

    Dean C.

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    Aug 25, 2013
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    Westfield
    I run a 3.5 pound trigger in all my 1911's personally , just heavy enough I get a definitive "wall" before the sear breaks.
     

    rhino

    Grandmaster
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    Mar 18, 2008
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    I appreciate a nice light trigger pull as much as anyone but having done idpa/uspsa/steel challlenge for about a year I am questioning the utility of a sub 4 pound trigger. I am wondering if anyone thinks they benefit from such light triggers in action shooting? Personally I think the potential of ripping off a shot when I don't intend to (as in before the sight picture is set) far outweighs the advantage when the adrenaline is up. I also wonder if in a self defense situation if anyone will notice the difference between 4 pounds and 8 pounds when the adrenaline is really up. I think a crisp trigger and short reset is very important leading to my shooting 1911's.

    My opinion is that the time you won't notice a difference between a 4# and an 8# trigger is when you have your finger on the trigger and it should not be, then you your hand convulses unintentionally (for a variety of reasons) resulting in a negligent discharge.

    For 1911s, the issue isn't how heavy the trigger is or is not, it's the short distance you have to move it to make the gun fire. If your finger is on the trigger when it should not be, bad things will happen eventually whether it's 4# or 8#.

    The benefit of lighter triggers for all applications is that it can improve your accuracy. That includes both hitting where you want to hit and not hitting where you do not want to hit. The latter is an argument that some aspects of lighter triggers actually makes them safer overall.
     

    rvb

    Grandmaster
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    4   0   0
    Jan 14, 2009
    6,396
    63
    IN (a refugee from MD)
    I appreciate a nice light trigger pull as much as anyone but having done idpa/uspsa/steel challlenge for about a year I am questioning the utility of a sub 4 pound trigger. I am wondering if anyone thinks they benefit from such light triggers in action shooting? Personally I think the potential of ripping off a shot when I don't intend to (as in before the sight picture is set) far outweighs the advantage when the adrenaline is up. I also wonder if in a self defense situation if anyone will notice the difference between 4 pounds and 8 pounds when the adrenaline is really up. I think a crisp trigger and short reset is very important leading to my shooting 1911's.

    you can't tell a different in controllability between a 4 lb and 8 lb trigger?
    I like good triggers but not crazy light. even my open gun is about 2.5-3 lb.

    reset has nothing to do with making a good shot.

    If you're breaking shots un-intended with a light trigger, that's not the trigger's fault.

    2c

    -rvb
     

    Bosshoss

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    19   0   0
    Dec 11, 2009
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    MADISON
    My opinion is that the time you won't notice a difference between a 4# and an 8# trigger is when you have your finger on the trigger and it should not be, then you your hand convulses unintentionally (for a variety of reasons) resulting in a negligent discharge.

    For 1911s, the issue isn't how heavy the trigger is or is not, it's the short distance you have to move it to make the gun fire. If your finger is on the trigger when it should not be, bad things will happen eventually whether it's 4# or 8#.

    The benefit of lighter triggers for all applications is that it can improve your accuracy. That includes both hitting where you want to hit and not hitting where you do not want to hit. The latter is an argument that some aspects of lighter triggers actually makes them safer overall.

    This ^^^
    Trigger weight and trigger discipline are two different things and if you have good trigger discipline then the weight doesn't matter.
    Not a good idea to use trigger weight to try to correct poor trigger discipline.
     

    croy

    Master
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    24   0   0
    Apr 22, 2012
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    The benefit of lighter triggers for all applications is that it can improve your accuracy. That includes both hitting where you want to hit and not hitting where you do not want to hit. The latter is an argument that some aspects of lighter triggers actually makes them safer overall.
    I'll have to disagree with this. Your mechanics improve accuracy, not the trigger itself.
     

    NHT3

    Grandmaster
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    52   0   0
    I"ll just leave this here.. Man shot 21 times in Harlem cop shootout not charged with attempted murder | New York Post
    So much for heavy triggers, notice this is New York, triggers are either 8 or 12 pounds. Draw whatever conclusions you like but I'm more accurate with a good trigger that has a short reset.. If your finger is at register position until you are on your target it matters not how light the trigger is.

    [FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member [/FONT]NRA Basic pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] /[/FONT][FONT=&amp] RSO[/FONT]
    Glock certified armorer- M&P Certified armorer
    [FONT=&amp]“[/FONT]Safety is not something that you hold in your hands, it happens between your ears”
    Col. Jeff Cooper
     

    phylodog

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    59   0   0
    Mar 7, 2008
    18,752
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    It boils down to what you're used to, what you train with and what you're willing to accept as "good enough". I was forced to use an 8lb trigger for years and it sucked. I had pistols with 5lb triggers in them and I shot them far better. Once I found myself in a position to influence a change the 8lb trigger curse was lifted and I, along with many others, reaped the benefits without any negative consequences.
     

    churchmouse

    I still care....Really
    Emeritus
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    187   0   0
    Dec 7, 2011
    191,809
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    Speedway area
    It boils down to what you're used to, what you train with and what you're willing to accept as "good enough". I was forced to use an 8lb trigger for years and it sucked. I had pistols with 5lb triggers in them and I shot them far better. Once I found myself in a position to influence a change the 8lb trigger curse was lifted and I, along with many others, reaped the benefits without any negative consequences.

    Muscle memory plays into this.
    And trigger discipline.
     

    rvb

    Grandmaster
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    4   0   0
    Jan 14, 2009
    6,396
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    IN (a refugee from MD)
    I'll have to disagree with this. Your mechanics improve accuracy, not the trigger itself.

    A crappy/heavy trigger acts like an amplifier. Any little inconsistency in trigger press gets exaggerated. is it possible to shoot a horrible trigger accurately? Yes. Is it easier to shoot a good trigger accurately with more consistency? Absolutely!

    -rvb
     

    Tanfodude

    Master
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    0   0   0
    Jul 25, 2012
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    I'll have to disagree with this. Your mechanics improve accuracy, not the trigger itself.

    Try shooting fast and being accurate at the same time w/ a heavy trigger. If one is just a recreational plinker on a shooting bench or stall, then trigger wt doesn't make a difference. If shooting multiple targets and on the move. It makes a huge difference.
     

    cosermann

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    Aug 15, 2008
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    OP, it's not clear to me whether your trigger question is primarily from a competition perspective or a personal defense perspective. Which? Even if the former, do you carry the same gun for defensive purposes?
     

    rhino

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    I'll have to disagree with this. Your mechanics improve accuracy, not the trigger itself.

    You are welcome to disagree.


    But the trigger plays into the mechanics.
    It is all a balance.

    Correct.

    The key is this: the better the trigger it is, the easier it is to shoot well. The worse the trigger is, the more work the shooter has to do get the same results.


    Yeah, they'll notice they're not hitting the target as much with an 8# trigger.

    That's reality.


    It boils down to what you're used to, what you train with and what you're willing to accept as "good enough". I was forced to use an 8lb trigger for years and it sucked. I had pistols with 5lb triggers in them and I shot them far better. Once I found myself in a position to influence a change the 8lb trigger curse was lifted and I, along with many others, reaped the benefits without any negative consequences.

    That's reality.


    A crappy/heavy trigger acts like an amplifier. Any little inconsistency in trigger press gets exaggerated. is it possible to shoot a horrible trigger accurately? Yes. Is it easier to shoot a good trigger accurately with more consistency? Absolutely!

    -rvb

    That's an excellent way to state it.

    It's simply more difficulty to shoot a gun with a crappy trigger well than it is to shoot a gun with a good trigger. A non-believer may do an experiment with an original S&W Sigma vs. a nicely tuned 1911. Let 100 shooters shoot them both over an identical course of fire. The results will be obvious and repeatable.


    Try shooting fast and being accurate at the same time w/ a heavy trigger. If one is just a recreational plinker on a shooting bench or stall, then trigger wt doesn't make a difference. If shooting multiple targets and on the move. It makes a huge difference.

    Another good point. Some people never any shooting were speed is a factor.
     

    Bosshoss

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    MADISON
    Try shooting fast and being accurate at the same time w/ a heavy trigger. If one is just a recreational plinker on a shooting bench or stall, then trigger wt doesn't make a difference. If shooting multiple targets and on the move. It makes a huge difference.

    Lots of Revolver shooters are fairly fast and accurate with a(compared to a auto) heavy trigger.:stickpoke:
    6# pull and a half inch stroke and a half inch reset for every shot.
    That being said I'm still faster with a auto than a revolver but a lot of that is in the reload speed and lack of reloads and the extra rounds allow you the luxury of pushing speed because of the extra ammo on board.
    Oops got sidetracked:rolleyes: anyway with good technique and some practice trigger weight isn't usually the problem.
    I like a light trigger as much as anyone and my 1911's were usually around 2# but like I said I shoot a 6# long trigger pull just as accurate.
     

    rhino

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    Lots of Revolver shooters are fairly fast and accurate with a(compared to a auto) heavy trigger.:stickpoke:
    6# pull and a half inch stroke and a half inch reset for every shot.
    That being said I'm still faster with a auto than a revolver but a lot of that is in the reload speed and lack of reloads and the extra rounds allow you the luxury of pushing speed because of the extra ammo on board.
    Oops got sidetracked:rolleyes: anyway with good technique and some practice trigger weight isn't usually the problem.
    I like a light trigger as much as anyone and my 1911's were usually around 2# but like I said I shoot a 6# long trigger pull just as accurate.

    Heavy and long isn't the same as crappy! You do trigger jobs on your revolvers to make them as smooth and light as possible, while still having positive ignition of primers and a reasonable reset speed, right?
     

    Bosshoss

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    Heavy and long isn't the same as crappy! You do trigger jobs on your revolvers to make them as smooth and light as possible, while still having positive ignition of primers and a reasonable reset speed, right?

    Yes I do but 6 pounds is still 6 pounds. A half inch reset is still a half inch reset. One of the biggest things I here on a new auto that comes out is how short is the reset? ALL of them are way shorter than a revolver.
    I hate the spongy Glock triggers(my definition of crappy)but still shoot them OK and others like Vogel have mastered them.
    I personally can pick up a stock revolver with say a 12 lb pull and shoot a cylinder through it and to adjust my timing a little and shoot it just fine. I would be slower on long shots to settle the sight picture a little more but it wouldn't be noticeable.
     

    rvb

    Grandmaster
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    Jan 14, 2009
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    Yes I do but 6 pounds is still 6 pounds. A half inch reset is still a half inch reset. One of the biggest things I here on a new auto that comes out is how short is the reset? ALL of them are way shorter than a revolver.
    I hate the spongy Glock triggers(my definition of crappy)but still shoot them OK and others like Vogel have mastered them.
    I personally can pick up a stock revolver with say a 12 lb pull and shoot a cylinder through it and to adjust my timing a little and shoot it just fine. I would be slower on long shots to settle the sight picture a little more but it wouldn't be noticeable.

    As I said above, I think it's certainly possible to shoot a heavier and/or crappy trigger well, but it's much easier to be consistently accurate with a better trigger. it's easier, right? Or why else would you tune your revolver triggers at all?

    glock triggers do suck. Yes, I can shoot them well. But I can't shoot them well as consistently or easily as a 1911 trigger. any little change in trgger press really shows up on the target with the glock triggers. I find them very unforgiving.

    While not shooting DA every shot like a revo, I came up through the shooting sports shooting a DA/SA gun. I practiced with DA a LOT. SA was still consistently more accurate... while also being quicker to get the shot off.

    after shooting glocks for a couple seasons, when I picked up the 1911s this past year I was like "oh, wow, I forgot what it was like to shoot a decent gun!" haha

    -rvb
     

    rhino

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    Yes I do but 6 pounds is still 6 pounds. A half inch reset is still a half inch reset. One of the biggest things I here on a new auto that comes out is how short is the reset? ALL of them are way shorter than a revolver.
    I hate the spongy Glock triggers(my definition of crappy)but still shoot them OK and others like Vogel have mastered them.
    I personally can pick up a stock revolver with say a 12 lb pull and shoot a cylinder through it and to adjust my timing a little and shoot it just fine. I would be slower on long shots to settle the sight picture a little more but it wouldn't be noticeable.

    Hehe! Six pounds is way lighter than the DA pull on my Sigs!!!
     

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