Sig Sauer 1911-22 disassembly?

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  • doddg

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    Need some input, please. but I think I figured some of it out staying up till 6 am (no sleep) Sat.
    I read/saw about why there is a missing pin but still not how to disassemble.
    I found a vid about upgrades that mentioned it in my dialogue below.
    (See at bottom)

    I had an INGO member come over to the house and showed me how to clean guns, with the right "stuff."
    When we got to the Sig here, we couldn't get the slide off b/c the vids showed:
    1. taking the "slide catch" out on the left side, by pushing through the "tab" in from the right side after getting the slide in the right position then pulling out the slide catch on the left side: piece of cake.

    2. Then you are supposed to push a "pin" through from the right side out through the left side, but there is no "pin" there?!?!?!?!?

    3. The next step after taking the "pin" out (that isn't there", is using an Allen wrench to unscrew a screw on the right side, so maybe if you just go to that step since there isn't the "pin" step to do, that will allow the slide to come off. (It's 4:15 am and I'm going to the garage to look for one)
    Well, after looking till 4:30am in the garage I can't find my 40 Allen wrenches in a pouch where I've always kept them. :xmad: At this point it will have to wait till tomorrow.

    3. Next step (if you got the pin out) is to turn the "bushing" on the end of the barrel to the left, which allows removal of the barrel/slide, but you can't push the rod down to be able to get to turn the "thing" on the end of the barrel.
    Sorry, I don't know all the terminology. If it wasn't 3:40 am I would look up the vid again. :dunno:. I'm beginning my vacation :rockwoot:

    I know the previous owner had done some upgrades:
    1. about the rod (it doesn't push in so as to be able to turn the "thing" on the end to the left, and it looks metal instead of the plastic OEM one)
    2. a bushing on the end that makes the fit tight enough that the pin isn't needed, which explains why it isn't there, but if that bushing had been replaced it was then to not need the screw. The screw is indesirable b/c it ends up getting stripped.

    I have half-a-dozen small plastic bags showing the parts that he had bought upgrading the gun, some of which are still in the bags and apparently weren't used.
    If I need to I can post pics of those little bags if it will help, since the terminology alone could be helpful.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s_AgJH3nFc

    Here's what I learned from the vid about the upgrade:
    1. CW accessories solid guide rod
    2. A slide alignment cone in the vid was there but I don't know if I have that b/c my "end" doesn't look as big. It goes on the end of the barrel where the bushing is for better accuracy, which the guy said he got better groups shooting with it. Or is could be the slide alignment cone (I was confused).
    3. When installed, you don't need the barrel screw (taken off with the Allen wrench).
    4. But, I still don't know how to get the barrel/slide off????? This vid did do the field strip/disassembly: too bad.

    5. In another vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9FxRMBRE7Q
    I learned that you replace the screw by using a tighter bushing on the end: not understand but I still have the screw on mine, but I understood the previous owner replaces the bushing, but I still have the screw.
    6. That still not explains why I can't turn the bushing left to get off the barrel.
    7. This guy hasn't done that upgrade yet just refers to it.
    8. My guide rod assembly has been replaced with a stainless steel one (I think).
    9. under the barrel you are supposed to be able to push the "plunger" down (over the guide rod) to move the bushing, but it will not depress and that is still my dilemma: I can't find out why and what to do to "swing" the bushing to the left to free up the barrel/slide.
     
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    doddg

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    I bought a 13 piece Allen wrench set at Harbor Freight just to get the @2 metric that fit the gun "screw" and took it out.
    Still no help getting the bushing to turn left so the barrel/slide will come out???????
    Driving me nuts; I know it has to be simple!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     

    doddg

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    GOT IT!!!! I simply had to use force to pull it out, or rather speed when pulling the slide!!!!!!
    the rest of the post simply tells of everything before the above statement.

    I couldn't believe it.
    I was just playing with it, moving the slide back and forth, trying to figure out how to get that bushing loose, and it simply came off in my hands!!!!

    Therefore, taking the screw out allowed me to get the slide off WITHOUT moving the bushing over to the left like all the vids showed?????
    Must have something to do with the upgrades the previous owner did?

    I was playing with a Colt 1911-22 (made by Walther) and it worked like the vids:
    1. push down the "plunger" below the barrel
    2. slide bushing over to the left: done!
     

    doddg

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    It is interesting that whatever upgrades were done to the Sig circumvented the pushing of the "plunger" (which was a stainless steel replacement for the OEM plastic one), and then the "turning" of the bushing to allow the slide to come off.

    Now I'll be able to clean it.
    I want to buy a Colt that's available, and if I buy it, I'll sell the Sig, so, either way, either I or someone else will get a clean Sig 1911-22 to use.
     

    doddg

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    Oh no! It's not over: I still can't get the barrel and rod out of the slide: HELP!
    At this point it must be something stupid.
    I'm going back to look at the youtube vids.
    Here are some pics of the slide off:
    plunger finally went down (but now won't come back up)
    bushing turned left after I got plunger down

    The guiding rod and spring won't go forward to come out of the slide like in the vids.
    You are supposed to be able to lift out the end of the "plunger" then the screen comes out, then the guide rod.
    But, the bushing isn't going down enough to be able to rotate it past the "plunger" to the other side like in the vid,
    And, so, the barrel can't come out.
    The lack of rotation the bushing and the plunger not being easy to work with and also the bushing, which is supposed to lift off, also.
    I'm sure if the right person sees this, he'll laugh and tell me what is going wrong.

    I wonder if it has something to that bent washer, keeping everything from working properly.



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    WebSnyper

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    I'm not really up on these and how they differ from a regular 1911, but looks like the recoil spring rod has been replaced with one of these possibly ? Extended Full Length Guide Rod

    If that's the case, not sure if someone with a GSG or a Sig that has replaced the rod with the GSG extended rod may have some words of wisdom. Though on the site the vids seem to show that it should disassemble the standard way without any complication due to the longer rod.
     
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    doddg

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    I'm not really up on these and how they differ from a regular 1911, but looks like the recoil spring rod has been replaced with one of these possibly ? Extended Full Length Guide Rod

    1. Yes. Only the one I have you can see by the pics has a cylindrical base of stainless steel that the guide rod is a part of/connects to.

    If that's the case, not sure if someone with a GSG or a Sig that has replaced the rod with the GSG extended rod may have some words of wisdom. Though on the site the vids seem to show that it should disassemble the standard way without any complication due to the longer rod.

    2. Yes, that is what is so frustrating, none of the vids, even those that talk of upgrades, show any differences in take down, except that the "pin" won't be there (like mine) with a certain upgrade.
    3. In
    othervids it will show how the screw won't be there if there is a different bushing or barrel end, not remember, but I still have the screw.
     

    doddg

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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9FxRMBRE7Q

    Just saw in this vid (which I saw last night but don't know if this was 1 of 2 vids I posted).

    The WASHER goes on the guide rod, back near the base (where cylindrical base is connected to the rod part)
    But, how did it get out since I haven't gotten the rod out.
    It seems like it goes between the "base" and the spring, b/c the spring is put in from the "end" of the barrel over the guide rod that is sitting in the slide with the washer already there.

    I could maybe flatten out the one I took out, but I'd rather know where to go to get a fresh/new one.
     
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    Jeepster48439

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    I have a GSG model and it breaks down just like a standard 1911. The barrel bushing comes out of the slide and the recoil spring comes right out. Mine has the accurizing upgrades which replaced the threaded piece on the end of the barrel, the barrel bushing and guide rod. Although not needed with my upgrades, I still use the Allen screw. Not sure why the pin is not needed.
     

    Jeepster48439

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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9FxRMBRE7Q

    Just saw in this vid (which I saw last night but don't know if this was 1 of 2 vids I posted).

    The WASHER goes on the guide rod, back near the base (where cylindrical base is connected to the rod part)

    I could maybe flatten out the one I took out, but I'd rather know where to go to get a fresh/new one.

    My GSG came with a flat rubber washer is addition the metal washer. When the rubber washer wore out I was able to replace it with a flat valve stem washer. Just needed to trim it to the correct diameter. As for the metal washer, I would just flatten it out. It is there to provide a flat surface for the spring to rest on.
     

    WebSnyper

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    My GSG came with a flat rubber washer is addition the metal washer. When the rubber washer wore out I was able to replace it with a flat valve stem washer. Just needed to trim it to the correct diameter. As for the metal washer, I would just flatten it out. It is there to provide a flat surface for the spring to rest on.

    Yep, I saw that the upgrade parts seemed to come with an old school looking shock buffer (I haven't had a 1911 for 25 years, but I remember Shock Buffers being a fad back then. Don't think they ever did much but possibly cause a gun not to run right).
     

    doddg

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    I'm not sure which of the empty bags were parts that were put in, like the empty guide rod bag, since I have a new stainless steel one in mine I assume so.
    The bag about the spring: is that the old one, and the new one is in my gun, I would assume.
    The frame hole plugs: does that mean I don't need the screw b/c I have the updated bushing?
    In the vid I saw, the upgraded bushing was bigger, and it meant you didn't need the screw, in the slide, like I have.
     
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    doddg

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    I came home from church and sprayed some WD 40 on both ends of the barrel and guide rod, b/c I'm convinced it simply has to be stuck.
    I texted and even talked on the phone with Dan (who I bought it off of), and he told me he only replaced the guide rod, spring and the thing at the end of the barrel over the end of the guide rod, which pushes in (not doing that), and is supposed to simply lift off after you move the bushing to the left.

    He said the first one he got was too tight and they sent him another one, which he thought was tight also, but he made it work.
    I don't think he lubed it up before putting it in, which leads to my theory that the heat from shooting the gun simply has forced it to "seat" in there too much.

    He was extremely apologetic about it, but I told him the youtube vids showed it was a very simple thing to do, and it wasn't his fault the part was not machined right.
    I imagine this is why a person should use parts from the manufacturer not from other sources, to keep the tolerances perfect.

    I think I'll go back out and spray some more.

    I will have to find the washer that is bent that I was trying to flatten out in the garage and it flung away.
    Not that I'll use it but it wiil let me know the size and thickness.

    But, It doesn't make sense that it was in the chamber loose, it should have been under the spring at the base on top the the cylindrical part???
    Makes me wonder if the washer was not placed on the other end by mistake, b/c there is no way for the washer to "fall out" from under the spring b/c the washer is around the guide rod and can't go anywhere.
     

    WebSnyper

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    Now you see the folly in purchasing modified firearms with aftermarket parts if you don't 100 % know what you are getting into.
    This may be an easy fix but still a PITA. Do you have the original OEM parts ?

    Generally you should be able to depress the recoil spring plug and pivot the barrel bushing (again been like 25 years since I disassembled a 1911). Some full length recoil spring rods are 2 piece and can be taken down to enable this process but doesn't appear yours is.

    You might ping @Churchmouse or @AllenM or one of the other local 1911 experts and see what they say.
     

    doddg

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    Here is the washer that came out of the Sig.
    It is supposed to be at the end of the guide rod, under the spring, on top of the "base" (cylindrical shaped end of guide rod), but I found it in the slide part, which makes no sense.
    Is it stainless steel?
    Can I go anywhere and get a washer the same size: doesn't seem to be anything special about it, and it's function seems to be to simply keep the spring off the base off the guide rod, I suppose, as a "wear" item that can be replaced after 10,000 rounds, ha!

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    doddg

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    Well, I'm going out to spray WD-40 on it for the 3rd time today to continue to soak, and I'll "manipulate" some before to see iit will magically loosen up.

    I wonder if I'll have to call Sig to get another "plunger" that isn't so tight as to not slide down when pushed and not come back up when you push the bushing to the left.

    The bushing still won't go over to the left, I can get 1/2 of it over, but not all of it.

    The barrel won't come out until the guide rod is out b/c it lifts out and the guide rod is in the way.
     
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    doddg

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    It looks like this local shop has everything needed to make the Sig work if I can get them to get the unmovable parts out.
    Replacing the barrel bushing and the slide alignment cone and the spring plug and getting a guide rod buffer should do it.

    The CW Accessories parts I think is what the problem is: not machined correctly, based on the fact the Dddrees said the first bushing was too tight and they sent him another that was too tight when he installed it. (a little better I guess).

    I'm excited about going there tomorrow in Noblesville and seeing if they can fix me up.
    I wonder if I might have to leave the gun with them for them to "pry" out the guide rod cover and the bushing on the end of the barrel.
    Hopefully, they can do it while I wait.
    Buying upgraded replacement parts, and having to pay a minimum fee to get them to pry loose will cost me.
    Since I want the Colt anyway, I might still sell the Sig just b/c of what I read about the green finish not holding up.
    I'll have to do some more research on it.

    ZR Tactical Solutions in Noblesville had different parts for the Sig 1911-22:

    THE SHOP GSG & SIG-SAUER 1911-22 ULTIMATE PACKAGE

    GSG & Sig-Sauer 1911-22 Ultimate Package
    $64.00 – $76.00


    Everything You Need To Upgrade Your GSG & Sig!


    Color


    $70.00 $64.00


    Description:
    The ZRTS Ultimate Package includes everything you need to upgrade your GSG or Sig Sauer 1911-22. It comes with a full length guide rod, slide alignment cone (SAC), bushing, spring & plug. This package is designed to improve the performance of your GSG & Sig Sauer 1911-22 pistol. The bushing and SAC are fitted together before shipping


    We are the only ones who swiss turn a one piece guiderod that can never separate. All steel construction adds weight and reduces split times. Stainless busing replaces zinc die cast factory unit that is prone to breakage.


    Oversized spring is much more reliable and doesn’t bind like the factory spring.


    IMG_20170323_161929.jpg


    20150427_063732-200x200.jpg

    Spring and Plug

    gsg-grp-200x200.jpg

    Guide Rod Package

    sac-200x200.jpg

    Slide alignment cone

    gsg-bushing-200x200.jpg


    Barrel bushing


    imageMain_13_36-e1435173902947-200x200.jpg


    Guide Rod buffer
     

    gmcttr

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    ...The bushing still won't go over to the left, I can get 1/2 of it over, but not all of it....

    Are you using a '1911 barrel bushing wrench'?

    Have you tried turning the bushing with the slide moved enough to the rear to take the barrel out of lockup?


    I wonder if I'll have to call Sig to get another "plunger" that isn't so tight as to not slide down when pushed and not come back up when you push the bushing to the left....

    Even "drop in" 1911 parts frequently take a bit of fitting to achieve proper function. A few minutes work with 400 to 600 grit 'wet or dry' sandpaper may resolve this issue.
     
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    doddg

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    Now you see the folly in purchasing modified firearms with aftermarket parts if you don't 100 % know what you are getting into.
    This may be an easy fix but still a PITA. Do you have the original OEM parts ?

    Generally you should be able to depress the recoil spring plug and pivot the barrel bushing (again been like 25 years since I disassembled a 1911). Some full length recoil spring rods are 2 piece and can be taken down to enable this process but doesn't appear yours is.

    You might ping @Churchmouse or @AllenM or one of the other local 1911 experts and see what they say.

    1. Point made, and I had thought of that before I read your post!!!!!!!!
    2. I have watched 15 youtube vids about disassembly and assembly and about upgrades.
    3. I am now expert as a person could be about it in book-learning. :laugh:
    4. Yes, you should be able to depress it, which I did Sat. on the Colt 1911-22 at Marksman Shooting Sports in Westfield, where Chris tempted me to buy one there for $200, but I didn't get any support for doing that, but b/c of the "coating" wearing off and I read where the metal was soft on the Sigs, and saw on a vid a wear factor where the slide catches the slide stop, it makes me think the Sig is not for long-term use: looks fantastic, shoots fantastic, but ...........
    5. If I keep it for long term it might not matter, but I'd never be able to sell it when I want to try another 1911-22.
    6. I still want the Colt. :dunno:
    7. I am hoping when I go to the ZR Tactical in Noblesville today, after a hospital visit in the am for a 3 yr. follow-up scan from having a kidney tumor removed and before taking the wife to Fort Ben for a lunch buffet, that it will solve all my issues.
    8. I hope they will get the stuck guide rod out and the bushing which will not turn to the right, and any other parts related to this that aren't right b/c the C/W Accessory parts aren't fitting.
    9. It will cost me, and then I'll have to eat that when I sell it.
    10. I paid $200 for a new never shot gun, and have put 100 or so rounds through it, and can advertise it as being upgrades with stronger parts from the shop and maybe sell it for $250 and get some of my money back.
    11. I'll ask them their advice based on people buying parts for upgrading the 1911-22 on which models out there. Here are 5 top ones:

    Sig Sauer
    http://www.sigsauer.com

    Walther
    http://www.waltherarms.com

    American Tactical
    http://www.americantactical.us

    Chiappa
    http://www.chiappafirearms.com

    Kimber
    Kimber America | Fine 1911 Pistols and Rifles

    12. I won't pay $500 for one, that's why I'm attracted to the Sig (GSG / German Sports Guns) and Colt (Walther), and I don't know how many others there are, but these are probably the top name-brand ones.
    13. There is a Browning but it is only 85% of the size: wierd to me b/c it is only the large 45 size that attracts me, getting a big-boy size frame gun for a 22 caliber.
    14. Hopefully by tomorrow this will be done with, or better yet, before lunch. :rockwoot:
     

    doddg

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    It is done!!! FIXED LIKE NEW (like I thought I was buying, :laugh:)

    After my Ultrasound this am I went straight to ZRTS ZR Tactical Solutions and told them my problem.
    Their address: 15223 Herriman Blvd. Suite 4 in Noblesville up route 37 off 146 St.

    When I told them and showed them the parts from CW Accessories, the man said CW had taken their parts and made their own from it were selling them, and since they don't fit well, they had heard this story before.

    ZRT's description:
    The ZRTS Ultimate Package includes everything you need to upgrade your GSG or Sig Sauer 1911-22. It comes with a full-length guide rod, slide alignment cone (SAC), bushing, spring & plug. This package is designed to improve the performance of your GSG & Sig Sauer 1911-22 pistol. The bushing and SAC are fitted together before shipping.

    We are the only ones who swiss turn a one-piece guide rod that can never separate. All steel construction adds weight and reduces split times. Stainless busing replaces zinc die cast factory unit that is prone to breakage.
    Oversized spring is much more reliable and doesn’t bind like the factory spring.

    B/C the "washer" (guide rod buffer) was not right the guide rod was chewing away where the guide rod went up the slide after being shot.
    He had to grind away some rough spot that was developing.
    He had to cut the old guide rod out b/c the plug would not come out of the end of the slide.
    The spring is much heavier than the new spring in the CW upgrade package.

    I was thrilled: it took him maybe 20 minutes to do the work and send me on my way.
    Cost: $100 = parts were about $70 and labor $30, and I was glad to pay it.

    Needless to say, even when I was at ZR Tactical Solutions, I pushed in the plunger and turned the bushing left and out comes the plug and spring: just like in the vids!
    When I got home I took it all apart and put some oil on everything and put it back together and I'm ready to go.

    I don't need the screw: They put a plug in it, and I don't need the "pin" now with the new bushing, for reasons I don't understand.
    He said that the pin should have been in there b/c what was done to the gun previously didn't warrant taking the pin out.

    Where the slide stop catches the slide after the last shot, it is showing wear there and he said I might call Sig and tell them and maybe they'd send me a stainless steel one. The OEM is Steel and the slide is aluminum, and so it will wear there he said.
    He also said when asked that there was no reason to sell the Sig and get the Colt, the Sig is just as good.
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