DA / SA, decocked with maual safety on?

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  • smythe012

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    I was talking to a friend about this set up and we were trying to think of other pistol options. Here's what I came up with:


    -FNX series from FN
    -HK P30 and USP Series, Variant 1-2

    What else am I missing? I figured no Sigs, CZs, Glocks...
     
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    Bigtanker

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    For clarity, are you wondering what other pistols that are SA/DA, and can be carried with hammer down with a safety on?
     

    Bigtanker

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    Beretta 92 and variants of it, most 3rd Gen S&W's, CZ 75, are some I can think of off the top of my head. I think some of the Sigs are set up that way.

    I would think most SA/DA's are like that. Some versions that were DAO didn't have a safety. Like the S&W 5946. It is DAO. It's sibling, the 5906 was SA/DA with a safety.
     

    smythe012

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    Beretta 92 and variants of it, most 3rd Gen S&W's, CZ 75, are some I can think of off the top of my head. I think some of the Sigs are set up that way.

    I would think most SA/DA's are like that. Some versions that were DAO didn't have a safety. Like the S&W 5946. It is DAO. It's sibling, the 5906 was SA/DA with a safety.

    The fact that the 92s skipped my mind means I'm lacking sleep. The PX4s can be added to the mix. My impression of with the CZ 75 was you could drop the hammer but you couldn't put the safety on. I'm basing that on my Pre-B, is that different than the B series? Also forgot about the 3rd Gen Smiths.
     

    Expat

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    Sig DA/SA do not have a manual safety, at least not on any modern ones. The whole idea of having the long heavy DA first pull is to alleviate the need of a manual safety.
     

    smythe012

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    Sig DA/SA do not have a manual safety, at least not on any modern ones. The whole idea of having the long heavy DA first pull is to alleviate the need of a manual safety.

    That's what I figured. The only Sig I could think of that had a manual safety was the P320 made for the military and that isn't SA/DA.
     

    Bigtanker

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    Sig DA/SA do not have a manual safety, at least not on any modern ones. The whole idea of having the long heavy DA first pull is to alleviate the need of a manual safety.

    I haven't messed with Sigs much. I wasn't sure. Same with the CZ's. With all of the variations they have or had available, I thought that was a possibility, but I'm not sure.
     

    Expat

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    That's what I figured. The only Sig I could think of that had a manual safety was the P320 made for the military and that isn't SA/DA.
    There are also some SAO models out there. The P226 Legion has a SAO model. I also have a P220 compact that was SAO.

    I haven't messed with Sigs much. I wasn't sure. Same with the CZ's. With all of the variations they have or had available, I thought that was a possibility, but I'm not sure.
    I wouldn't be surprised on the CZs, they have a lot of different configurations and I am no expert on them. Like the HK guns, they have so many different options you can get.
     

    russc2542

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    The DA/SA P30 is v3. I have one. having a safety makes it a P30s v3. v1-2 are LEM which is semi-DAO

    Could prevent some buyer's remorse down the line.

    hammer down as in decocked? I'd think it's harder to find guns that can't safety a decocked hammer.
     

    smythe012

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    The DA/SA P30 is v3. I have one. having a safety makes it a P30s v3. v1-2 are LEM which is semi-DAO

    Could prevent some buyer's remorse down the line.

    hammer down as in decocked? I'd think it's harder to find guns that can't safety a decocked hammer.

    I believe if I'm looking for the dual function of a decocker and manual safety wouldn't it be Variant 1?


    From HK:

    Variant 1:
 Double action/single action with "SAFE” position. Control lever (manual safety/decoking lever) on left side of frame.
    Variant 2: 
Double action/single action with "SAFE” position. Control lever (manual safety/decocking lever) on right side of frame.
    Variant 3: 
Double action/single action without "SAFE” position. Control lever (decocking lever) on left side of frame.
    Variant 4: 
Double action/single action without ”SAFE” position. Control lever (decocking lever) on right side of frame.
    Variant 5: 
Double action only with ”SAFE” position. Control lever (manual safety) on left side of frame.
    Variant 6: 
Double action only with ”SAFE” position. Control lever (manual safety) on right side of frame.
    Variant 7: 
Double action without control lever (no manual safety/decocking lever)
    Variant 8: 
Double action without control lever (no manual safety/decocking lever)
SPECIAL VARIANT FOR GOVERNMENT AGENCY
    Variant 9: 
Double action/single action with control lever (manual safety/no decocking function) on left side of frame.
    Variant 10: 
Double action/single action with control lever (manual safety/no decocking function) on right side of frame.


    Wikipedia isn't truly a viable source but:

    Variants 1 and 2 (double action/single action, decocking and safety lever)Variants 1 (lever on left) and 2 (lever on right) allow the user to carry the pistol in a single-action mode (cocked and locked) with the manual safety engaged. This same pistol, without modification, can be carried in double-action mode, with or without the manual safety engaged, and with the benefit of a decocking lever. Variants 3 and 4 (double action/single action, decocking lever, but no safety)Variants 3 (lever on left) and 4 (lever on right) provide the user with a frame-mounted decocking lever that does not have the "safe" position. This combination only allows the hammer to be lowered from SA position to DA position. It does not provide the "safe" position to prevent the pistol from firing when the trigger is pulled. Variants 5 and 6 (double action only, with safety lever)For the double-action-only user, variants 5 (lever on left), 6 (lever on right), and of the USP operate as double-action-only pistols, with a bobbed hammer always returning to the DA position (forward) after each shot is fired. To fire each shot, the trigger must be pulled through the smooth DA trigger pull. Variants 5 and 6 have a manual safety lever. Variant 7 (double-action only, no control lever)No control lever is provided on variant 7. Variant 8 Never produced. Variants 9 and 10 (double-action/single-action, safety lever, but no decocking)Variants 9 (lever on left) and 10 (lever on right) allow the shooter to carry the pistol in a single-action mode (cocked and locked) with the manual safety engaged. This same pistol, without modification, can be carried in double-action mode (hammer down), with or without the manual safety engaged. The double-action mode offers a second-strike/double-action capability in case of a misfire. The control lever has no decocking function on variants 9 and 10, so one would have to carefully lower the hammer manually (or keep the safety on, remove the magazine, and eject any round in the chamber before lowering the hammer).
     
    Last edited:

    russc2542

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    I believe if I'm looking for the dual function of a decocker and manual safety wouldn't it be Variant 1?


    From HK:

    Variant 1:
 Double action/single action with "SAFE” position. Control lever (manual safety/decoking lever) on left side of frame.
    Variant 2: 
Double action/single action with "SAFE” position. Control lever (manual safety/decocking lever) on right side of frame.
    Variant 3: 
Double action/single action without "SAFE” position. Control lever (decocking lever) on left side of frame.
    Variant 4: 
Double action/single action without ”SAFE” position. Control lever (decocking lever) on right side of frame.
    Variant 5: 
Double action only with ”SAFE” position. Control lever (manual safety) on left side of frame.
    Variant 6: 
Double action only with ”SAFE” position. Control lever (manual safety) on right side of frame.
    Variant 7: 
Double action without control lever (no manual safety/decocking lever)
    Variant 8: 
Double action without control lever (no manual safety/decocking lever)
SPECIAL VARIANT FOR GOVERNMENT AGENCY
    Variant 9: 
Double action/single action with control lever (manual safety/no decocking function) on left side of frame.
    Variant 10: 
Double action/single action with control lever (manual safety/no decocking function) on right side of frame.


    Wikipedia isn't truly a viable source but:

    Variants 1 and 2 (double action/single action, decocking and safety lever)Variants 1 (lever on left) and 2 (lever on right) allow the user to carry the pistol in a single-action mode (cocked and locked) with the manual safety engaged. This same pistol, without modification, can be carried in double-action mode, with or without the manual safety engaged, and with the benefit of a decocking lever. Variants 3 and 4 (double action/single action, decocking lever, but no safety)Variants 3 (lever on left) and 4 (lever on right) provide the user with a frame-mounted decocking lever that does not have the "safe" position. This combination only allows the hammer to be lowered from SA position to DA position. It does not provide the "safe" position to prevent the pistol from firing when the trigger is pulled. Variants 5 and 6 (double action only, with safety lever)For the double-action-only user, variants 5 (lever on left), 6 (lever on right), and of the USP operate as double-action-only pistols, with a bobbed hammer always returning to the DA position (forward) after each shot is fired. To fire each shot, the trigger must be pulled through the smooth DA trigger pull. Variants 5 and 6 have a manual safety lever. Variant 7 (double-action only, no control lever)No control lever is provided on variant 7. Variant 8 Never produced. Variants 9 and 10 (double-action/single-action, safety lever, but no decocking)Variants 9 (lever on left) and 10 (lever on right) allow the shooter to carry the pistol in a single-action mode (cocked and locked) with the manual safety engaged. This same pistol, without modification, can be carried in double-action mode (hammer down), with or without the manual safety engaged. The double-action mode offers a second-strike/double-action capability in case of a misfire. The control lever has no decocking function on variants 9 and 10, so one would have to carefully lower the hammer manually (or keep the safety on, remove the magazine, and eject any round in the chamber before lowering the hammer).

    the variants also vary on different models. that list may hold true for the USP but it isnt for the P30. on the P30, the decocker is on the rear of the frame separate from the safety and the safety is ambidextrous.
    p30-standard size, no safety
    p30s-standard size, safety
    p30L-long slide, no safety
    p30LS-long slide, safety
    p30sk-compact, no safety
    p30sks-compact, safety

    on top of that, you still have the variants for trigger type (DAO, DA/SA, LEM, SAO) and weight. LEM is DAO but opposite of DAK in terms of weight vs stroke. neither of your lists mention the various LEM types.

    they dont make it easy :xmad:
     

    throttletony

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    I think that you CAN arrange a CZ P-07 and P-09 that way.
    The typical CZ 75, 75B/85/85B do not allow the safety to be engaged if you manually decock it.
    That means you can leave it in condition 1 (locked n loaded, hammer back, safety on) or manually decock it and then can't engage safety -- this would mean a true DA first pull then SA afterwards (Correct me if I'm wrong). To my knowledge you can't decock it AND then engage safety on a CZ 75

    The CZ 75BD and SP-01Tactical don't have safeties, just decock
     

    smythe012

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    I think that you CAN arrange a CZ P-07 and P-09 that way.
    The typical CZ 75, 75B/85/85B do not allow the safety to be engaged if you manually decock it.
    That means you can leave it in condition 1 (locked n loaded, hammer back, safety on) or manually decock it and then can't engage safety -- this would mean a true DA first pull then SA afterwards (Correct me if I'm wrong). To my knowledge you can't decock it AND then engage safety on a CZ 75

    The CZ 75BD and SP-01Tactical don't have safeties, just decock


    I have seen how you can change from a manual safety to a decocker in the P series, however I couldn’t find any detailings as to whether the safety still works.
     
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