Subcompact beats full size...according to friend

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  • Excalibur

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    So every time I get into a "discussion", my pal seemed to think that a subcompact of any gun is much better and you can get effective hits down range despite the shorter barrel. I carry a Glock 19 all the time and he has a G26 and he's pretty much implying that the baby Glock is better in every way on the sole fact that it can take all the mags of the bigger guns in a pinch. I shrug at that thought because the odds of you seriously bumping into other compatible mags in the heat of things isn't realistic. He has no full size guns and not even considering them at all.


    In context, my friend is a Marine. He's been in combat and has law enforcement experience, but quit a while ago.
     

    Thor

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    When he goes to the range what distance is he shooting at? Maybe he's right if his engagement zone ends at 10 yards...and then he switches to a long gun.

    I suppose if he's getting kill zone hits at 50 yards he might not be wrong for him...
     

    Kutnupe14

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    You friend doesn't know what he's talking about. Isn't it 101, longer barrel better accuracy?
     
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    Route 45

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    Your friend probably has a good point, for most civilian concealed carry. He can easily convert his 26 to an "almost" Glock 19 with a G19 mag and grip sleeve, and it can use all of the double stack Glock 9mm mags. But you can't shrink your G19 to G26 size for easier concealment. The accuracy and velocity difference between the 2 is likely meaningless at typical self defense distances, barring the ultra-rare "terrorist at the mall" scenario. Capacity of the G26 is good enough for the vast majority of things that an armed citizen will encounter, and the ability to roll with a bigger mag makes this a non-issue.

    If a person is only going to own 1 pistol, it's hard to argue against a small gun that is easily convertible to full size capacity.
     

    M67

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    2ae30135-67ca-455f-bd3d-b98aef35be28_screenshot.jpg
     

    AngryRooster

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    Under certain circumstances and conditions I can see that. I have small hands and a lot of full size guns don't fit me well. I shoot my G19's better than the G17. If I was given a choice between a G26 and the new G19X as a gift I would take the G26. I know the 19X wouldn't fit my hand well and I don't care for pug nosed, disproportional guns. I shoot my Walther PPS M2 better than some mid sized guns. A full size Beretta 92? Had one long time ago, sucked with it and dumped it quickly. I do have a full size M&P Pro 5" and shoot it well, but it's about the only full size like that.


    I'm not quite the Burger King tiny hands guy, but I can get a full grip without a pinkie hanging off with my PPS, a Shield with no mag, a J frame with stock rubber grips, Kahr PM9, etc.

    hqdefault.jpg
     

    Vigilant

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    I won’t go as far as saying what your buddy says, but I do shoot my G26 better than my numerous 19’s. I’ve also shot both through a Ransom rest and the 26 proved more accurate? I still carry the 19 and use the 26 as a BUG.
     
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    Hobart
    I'm that Marine/LEO friend Mr. Magoo and before you go off and say some keyboard warrior stuff, I literally just got back on this site today after 8 years, so I'll play nice... Explain to me the basic 101 for that with an engagement zone of 25 yds or less? I am an expert in rifle qualifications (4th award) and 2nd expert award for pistol... That's just Marine Corps military quals, not including my LEO crap I had to qual with either... Not even throwing around my NRA/USCCA crap either, not going there.... Anything past that reactionary gap/ unknown zone I am switching to a long gun as aforementioned... Backup to the backup son... Spending my time applying my experience and knowledge, with real world applications, multiple deployments/ops and 100s of hot pursuit calls as a rook...

    Explain to me how I don't know anything again? I am not using my "side arm" as my primary go to 100% of the time... If they are that close, they are getting hand to hand mcmap or a kbar to the neck if they are one arms distance of me... Adapt, improvise, and overcome... One mind, any tool for I am the weapon.... I sit quietly to hurry up and wait for a response :)

    P.S. He goes to Point Blank with me all the time, plenty of pictures to prove that as well, along with 25 yard shots easily and one handed... I am just a beginner for most people, I know people that make me look like a choir boy... A CHOIR BOY!!!
     
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    Hobart
    Your friend probably has a good point, for most civilian concealed carry. He can easily convert his 26 to an "almost" Glock 19 with a G19 mag and grip sleeve, and it can use all of the double stack Glock 9mm mags. But you can't shrink your G19 to G26 size for easier concealment. The accuracy and velocity difference between the 2 is likely meaningless at typical self defense distances, barring the ultra-rare "terrorist at the mall" scenario. Capacity of the G26 is good enough for the vast majority of things that an armed citizen will encounter, and the ability to roll with a bigger mag makes this a non-issue.

    If a person is only going to own 1 pistol, it's hard to argue against a small gun that is easily convertible to full size capacity.

    Thank for clearing some of that up for me, part of my explanation is exactly that, physics... The energy and velocity lost on any full size to sub compact is minimal at best from a moot argument, especially if I carry my 10mm or 45.... The magazine use for me IMO, uniformity, same basic principle the USMC teaches...
     
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    Hobart
    If SHTF, God forbid, if everyone is susceptible to the experiences I have, nothing will change that... And I don't wish that on anyone, however, as that saying goes or whatever, 1 well placed shot is better than 15 missed... I have all the subcompact models in my collection, for my reasons, not yours... Those reasons come from my experience, my training, my preferences, and my ease of use... Its the driver, not the car, dress to the gun not the other way around... I can guarantee I can meet or exceed your "engagement" zones there buddy for the basics of 101 and place all my shots center mass on target... Maybe a stray or 2... Shoot, move, relocate... I keep subcompacts in my arsenal due to the fact my skillset and the very crude old school effective ways I train only military guys will appreciate, thanks to Don Shipley for that advice long ago... Train how you will fight, like your life depends on it, because eventually it will... Meet those that want your life with speed and intensity... End of story
     

    Woobie

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    I think when people talk handgun accuracy and barrel length, what they are really experiencing is the extended sight radius the longer barreled pistol provides. In most cases it is just as possible to be accurate with a 3.3" barrel as a 5". The intrinsic mechanical accuracy between the two is similar. However, due to parallax, the longer the distance between the front and rear sights, the easier it is (all things being equal) to have greater accuracy and shot to shot consistency. But if you're good with your gear, there's no need for the longer barrel from an accuracy standpoint.
     

    Kutnupe14

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    I'm that Marine/LEO friend Mr. Magoo and before you go off and say some keyboard warrior stuff, I literally just got back on this site today after 8 years, so I'll play nice... Explain to me the basic 101 for that with an engagement zone of 25 yds or less? I am an expert in rifle qualifications (4th award) and 2nd expert award for pistol... That's just Marine Corps military quals, not including my LEO crap I had to qual with either... Not even throwing around my NRA/USCCA crap either, not going there.... Anything past that reactionary gap/ unknown zone I am switching to a long gun as aforementioned... Backup to the backup son... Spending my time applying my experience and knowledge, with real world applications, multiple deployments/ops and 100s of hot pursuit calls as a rook...

    Explain to me how I don't know anything again? I am not using my "side arm" as my primary go to 100% of the time... If they are that close, they are getting hand to hand mcmap or a kbar to the neck if they are one arms distance of me... Adapt, improvise, and overcome... One mind, any tool for I am the weapon.... I sit quietly to hurry up and wait for a response :)

    P.S. He goes to Point Blank with me all the time, plenty of pictures to prove that as well, along with 25 yard shots easily and one handed... I am just a beginner for most people, I know people that make me look like a choir boy... A CHOIR BOY!!!

    You, may be that Marine/LEO friend, but the OP (who was addressed) makes no mention of "25 yards or less," but rather says "down range" when speaking of making "effective hits." This would imply an atypical engagement range, because if you can't make effective hits at "25 yards or less," you're doing something wrong. The longer the barrel, the longer the separations of the sights, the longer the time in the barrel, higher velocity (i.e. more accurate). If you take exception, take exception with how the OP portrayed you.
     

    Woobie

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    You, may be that Marine/LEO friend, but the OP (who was addressed) makes no mention of "25 yards or less," but rather says "down range" when speaking of making "effective hits." This would imply an atypical engagement range, because if you can't make effective hits at "25 yards or less," you're doing something wrong. The longer the barrel, the longer the separations of the sights, the longer the time in the barrel, higher velocity (i.e. more accurate). If you take exception, take exception with how the OP portrayed you.


    Weeeelll, I wouldn't say higher velocity is corollary to accuracy, especially in pistol rounds. A .460 S&W travels around 3 times or so the velocity that a 38 special does. But that doesn't make it any more accurate.
     

    Kutnupe14

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    Weeeelll, I wouldn't say higher velocity is corollary to accuracy, especially in pistol rounds. A .460 S&W travels around 3 times or so the velocity that a 38 special does. But that doesn't make it any more accurate.

    This is true.
     
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    Hobart
    I won’t go as far as saying what your buddy says, but I do shoot my G26 better than my numerous 19’s. I’ve also shot both through a Ransom rest and the 26 proved more accurate? I still carry the 19 and use the 26 as a BUG.

    Articulate your reasoning.... I want to hear a different side of the coin and understand, maybe I'll change a point of view or 2, even my own, who knows... If you can pick up any handgun, of course, and use it as a primary defense, fine, I concur with one side, but for a subcompact/compact/full size/extended slides, it comes down to the user pulling that trigger every single time... Yes, I can see some of the argument of being a faster acquisition for proper sight picture, but that is also down to the user and their ability... Again a lukewarm moot point, it comes down to training/experience for the most part again... I have sausage fingers, meaning I have to buy XL gloves, but trim them to medium finger lengths, everything I have is custom tailored for my body style and my type. Every suit, every pair of pants, all tailored... I'm the athletic short and stocky mesomorph type with thighs of thunder and cankles of destruction...

    Remember, you are responsible for each round that leaves that firearm, so again train like your life depends on it...

    My EDC depends on my moods, G42 or G43, G26 or G29, maybe my G30.... Doesn't matter to me one bit... If I could I'd carry my Benelli M4 or M16 everyday, but that's not feasible...
     

    Kutnupe14

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    Articulate your reasoning.... I want to hear a different side of the coin and understand, maybe I'll change a point of view or 2, even my own, who knows... If you can pick up any handgun, of course, and use it as a primary defense, fine, I concur with one side, but for a subcompact/compact/full size/extended slides, it comes down to the user pulling that trigger every single time... Yes, I can see some of the argument of being a faster acquisition for proper sight picture, but that is also down to the user and their ability... Again a lukewarm moot point, it comes down to training/experience for the most part again... I have sausage fingers, meaning I have to buy XL gloves, but trim them to medium finger lengths, everything I have is custom tailored for my body style and my type. Every suit, every pair of pants, all tailored... I'm the athletic short and stocky mesomorph type with thighs of thunder and cankles of destruction...

    Remember, you are responsible for each round that leaves that firearm, so again train like your life depends on it...

    My EDC depends on my moods, G42 or G43, G26 or G29, maybe my G30.... Doesn't matter to me one bit... If I could I'd carry my Benelli M4 or M16 everyday, but that's not feasible...

    Of course. Obviously a good gun doesn't make a bad shooter "good." I was under the impression we were speaking solely about the firearm. All things being equal, a longer barrel will give you more accurate results than a short one.
     
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    Hobart
    I think when people talk handgun accuracy and barrel length, what they are really experiencing is the extended sight radius the longer barreled pistol provides. In most cases it is just as possible to be accurate with a 3.3" barrel as a 5". The intrinsic mechanical accuracy between the two is similar. However, due to parallax, the longer the distance between the front and rear sights, the easier it is (all things being equal) to have greater accuracy and shot to shot consistency. But if you're good with your gear, there's no need for the longer barrel from an accuracy standpoint.

    Yeah I always find that as a lukewarm moot point for the debate.... 3.3" to a 5" really? That's like a 18" to 16" on an rifle... Really? That's such a huge massive difference if you miss then blame it on the gun... Gear adrift is gear a gift... I agree with your stance on the eyes playing games with your ability to focus, and let fight or flight take effect, watch that tunnel vision toss all that out the window... 95% of people will not understand that until it's too late, when they are knee deep in the suck....
     
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    Hobart
    You, may be that Marine/LEO friend, but the OP (who was addressed) makes no mention of "25 yards or less," but rather says "down range" when speaking of making "effective hits." This would imply an atypical engagement range, because if you can't make effective hits at "25 yards or less," you're doing something wrong. The longer the barrel, the longer the separations of the sights, the longer the time in the barrel, higher velocity (i.e. more accurate). If you take exception, take exception with how the OP portrayed you.

    No harm no foul, always an exception... Yeah, him and I always have these debates, when YouTube operators always make a video or review, I always take them with a huge grain of salt and try to explain certain things to him and it's hard to break it down Barney style again and again... Like Corey and Erica or whoever that was, I watched from the sidelines as that ****show unraveled... Nothing is typical, nothing is routine, I'm speaking from experience again, 2ft or 100ft, doesn't matter... All comes down to proper gear maintenance and training, which gets expensive as we all know...
     
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