Range time w/9mms: CZ Shadow 2, Sig 365, Glock 26 and Shield MP

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  • doddg

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    Took these 4 to the range today for a 20', 30' and 40' fun time.
    While using Fiocchi 9mm 115 grain FMJ,
    the Shield had 1/10 FTE, but none with the Blazer Brass 124 grain FMJ.
    The new Sig 365 (I put 6 mags through it's maiden range trip) had a FTE for every single round with the Fiocchi,
    but none with the Blazer Brass.
    The Glock 26 and CZ Shadow 2 had no issue with either ammo.
    I want to get a 12 round mag for the Sig 365 b/c the 10 round with the pinky extension just isn't enough purchase for my hand.
    My friend's Sig 365 that I shot had the 12 round mag and it made a huge difference.
    The Sig 365 shoots nearly as good as the Shadow 2 in the shorter distance, which reflects on me, of course.


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    Hop

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    Hard to confirm without seeing a side by side but looks like your groups are shrinking. You must have put the training to some good use.
     

    Dean C.

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    fr86FcJh.jpg


    Doddg I think you need a Tactical Sport Orange in your life, really considering the jump you made getting a Shadow 2 this really is not that big of a deal :rockwoot:
     

    doddg

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    Are you liking that big ol' hunk of metal Shadow 2?

    1. After shooting the others, I am so thrilled to have it.
    2. If I hadn't had nothing to do all summer after the surgery, and left alone reading too much on the CZ thread, and then was contacted by someone who had a CZ available, and I "folded."
    3. Which led to the other one, which led to the Shadow 2.


    Hard to confirm without seeing a side by side but looks like your groups are shrinking. You must have put the training to some good use.

    4. Control, or lack of it:still makes me mad when my first shot is nearly perfect then nothing else gets that close, or I have an "outlier" that makes it look like I have forgotten everything. :wallbash:

    fr86FcJh.jpg


    Doddg I think you need a Tactical Sport Orange in your life, really considering the jump you made getting a Shadow 2 this really is not that big of a deal :rockwoot:

    5. That is why I own my Shadow 2: the guy I bought it off of was in the store and there was a Tactical Sport Orange for a price he couldn't say no to (a CZ sale, I think he said).
    6. It wasn't that more expensive either, but that's what a sale does.
    7. I am not listening to any temptation of an even little bit more expensive gun: I still can't believe I bought the Shadow 2.
    :lala:
     

    cedartop

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    I am surprised to hear of the problems with the Fiochhi, that has always run very well in all my 9mm's. Blazer Brass runs ok but I have quit using it because of how dirty it is and its relatively poor long range (25-50 yard) accuracy.
     

    doddg

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    I am surprised to hear of the problems with the Fiochhi, that has always run very well in all my 9mm's. Blazer Brass runs ok but I have quit using it because of how dirty it is and its relatively poor long range (25-50 yard) accuracy.

    1. I've used the Fiocchi before in other guns w/o issue, but I didn't have the Sig 365 then.
    2. This will set me back with trust issues using the 365 as a CC, so I won't be too quick to sell the Shield MP like I'd planned.
    3. I didn't know if it had anything to do with the Fiocchi being a 115 grain instead of a 124 grain.
    4. I remember I had some trouble with a Beretta Nano using 115 until after I ran the recommended 300 rounds through it and I wonder if the Sig is like that.
    5. Most people aren't looking at my "range" thread, I wonder if I should put a separate thread in about the Sig having issues with FTE to see what others say about that?
     

    WebSnyper

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    The new Sig 365 (I put 6 mags through it's maiden range trip) had a FTE for every single round with the Fiocchi,
    but none with the Blazer Brass.

    So is the failure to eject one where the empty case is still in the chamber completely, or is it stovepiped being partially ejected? Does the Fiocchi feel underpowered at all compare to the Blazer Brass? I'm just wondering if you have a tight gun that will free up once the spring has been worked a bit combined with underpowered ammo, or stacking tolerances with an extractor and a case rim that are not compatible, or something else.

    I believe the Sig 320's had reports of ammo sensitivity issues when they were first released, but not sure I've heard the same about the 365's.


    Been years since I have shot any Fiocchi myself, so can't speak to it directly.

    Also, on your carry guns, do you function check them with running some actual defense ammo as well?
     

    doddg

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    So is the failure to eject one where the empty case is still in the chamber completely, or is it stovepiped being partially ejected? Does the Fiocchi feel underpowered at all compare to the Blazer Brass? I'm just wondering if you have a tight gun that will free up once the spring has been worked a bit combined with underpowered ammo, or stacking tolerances with an extractor and a case rim that are not compatible, or something else.

    1. Stovepiped.
    2. "Feel" underpowered? I can't tell any difference in how it feels.
    3. The 365 fired flawless out of the box going through 6 mags, and I think I was using the Blazer Brass then.


    I believe the Sig 320's had reports of ammo sensitivity issues when they were first released, but not sure I've heard the same about the 365's.

    3. I have a friend that went through 900 rounds before he had a problem with a round in his 365 (don't remember whether FTF or FTE), and he thinks it was his fault with his thumb).

    Been years since I have shot any Fiocchi myself, so can't speak to it directly.
    Also, on your carry guns, do you function check them with running some actual defense ammo as well?

    4. For carry, I use my Smith 642 revolver, and when I had the Glock 42/.380 I was carrying it, of which I planned for the Sig 365 to take its place, but after my last range trip: I don't trust it, which is why I carry a revolver for CC.
    5. The Glock 42 had never failed me, so I carried it; the Shield M/P had never failed me except yesterday with that 1 round using the Fiocchi: I used to carry it some, but now I don't trust the Shield.
    My Glock 26 has never failed me, so it is still trusted. With a CC for me, it is 1 strike and you're out, unless I can prove to myself that it is an ammo issue (like I did with the Beretta Nano that had a 300 round break-in period).
    5. I do have defense ammo for any gun I use for CC. I just let a box of great .380 personal defense ammo go with the Glock 42 that I sold Sat. making way for the Sig 365, and then it had issues with that ammo.
    6. After running a mag through the 10 round Sig 365 with everyone of the rounds having a FTE (using the Fiocchi 115 grain), I put 10 rounds flawlessly through it with the Blazer Brass (124 grain), then ran 10 rounds through it using the Fiocchi again with 3/10 FTE.
    7. I then ran 10 rounds through it flawlessly AGAIN with the Blazer Brass: proving to me that it was the ammo, in my mind, but I will go to the range and put it through testing again and if the result are the same, I will use only 124 grain, unless another brand of ammo with 115 grain is flawless, proving it is the brand not the grain.
    8. It shouldn't be this hard since I'm buying more expensive guns! I expect better!
    9. If my new CZ Shadow 2 acted like this, I'd sell it and get that S/W full-size 2.0 for $375, and get back to my roots.
    :rofl:
     

    NHT3

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    I doubt there's anything wrong with the 365. If you shop around it's usually possible to buy 124 GR 9MM as cheap as 115 and I think you will find that solves the problem with your Sig. Physically smaller pistols tend to be a little more sensitive to ammo and light bullets.

    [FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member / [/FONT]Basic Pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] / RSO[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

    [/FONT][FONT=&amp]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
    [/FONT][FONT=&amp]Unnamed Navy Seal[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

    [/FONT][FONT=&amp]“Ego is the reason many men do not shoot competition. They don't want to suck in public” [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp]
    [/FONT][FONT=&amp]Aron Bright[/FONT]
     

    WebSnyper

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    I doubt there's anything wrong with the 365. If you shop around it's usually possible to buy 124 GR 9MM as cheap as 115 and I think you will find that solves the problem with your Sig. Physically smaller pistols tend to be a little more sensitive to ammo and light bullets.

    [FONT=&amp]t[/FONT]

    Agreed, based on his reply, seems like OP found an ammo that the 365 just doesn't like. Unless it shows itself to have issues with several different loads, I wouldn't sweat it too much.

    4. For carry, I use my Smith 642 revolver, and when I had the Glock 42/.380 I was carrying it, of which I planned for the Sig 365 to take its place, but after my last range trip: I don't trust it, which is why I carry a revolver for CC.

    5. I do have defense ammo for any gun I use for CC. I just let a box of great .380 personal defense ammo go with the Glock 42 that I sold Sat. making way for the Sig 365, and then it had issues with that ammo.




    I'd just make sure that it doesn't bobble with your defense ammo of choice by putting enough of that exact load through it to prove to yourself if it is reliable, and then pick a range round that comes as close as possible to matching that in bullet weight, etc for general range shooting.

    Some guns just don't pair up well with some ammo.

    That said, OP, a revolver is not an infallible machine either. Same goes for running some defense ammo through it as well. Revolvers can bind up with certain ammo, etc too.

    Also, "having" defense ammo is not what I commented on. I suggest you run enough of the specific defense load of your choice through your carry guns to make sure that it in fact is reliable. As you have found out, some ammo does not work well in some guns. I'd suggest finding some 50 round LE boxes of the defense ammo you have chosen, online, and buy enough of it for a good test.
     
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    mcapo

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    Agreed, based on his reply, seems like OP found an ammo that the 365 just doesn't like. Unless it shows itself to have issues with several different loads, I wouldn't sweat it too much.

    I'd just make sure that it doesn't bobble with his defense ammo of choice by putting enough of that exact load through it to prove to yourself if it is reliable, and then pick a range round that comes as close as possible to matching that in bullet weight, etc for general range shooting.

    Some guns just don't pair up well with some ammo.

    That said, OP, a revolver is not an infallible machine either. Same goes for running some defense ammo through it as well. Revolvers can bind up with certain ammo, etc too.

    Also, "having" defense ammo is not what I commented on. I suggest you run enough of the specific defense load of your choice through your carry guns to make sure that it in fact is reliable. As you have found out, some ammo does not work well in some guns. I'd suggest finding some 50 round LE boxes of the defense ammo you have chosen, online, and buy enough of it for a good test.

    Repeating for emphasis.

    My P365 is approach 1000 rounds. It has ran everything including some crappy lead reloads from the 1990's that jam up many a gun.

    I doubt this is the case but the P365 is a small gun and its not hard to get a thumb up onto the slide...

    As stated above, if its just one brand of ammo, I wouldn't sweat it at all.
     

    doddg

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    I doubt there's anything wrong with the 365. If you shop around it's usually possible to buy 124 GR 9MM as cheap as 115 and I think you will find that solves the problem with your Sig. Physically smaller pistols tend to be a little more sensitive to ammo and light bullets.
    Aron Bright

    1. I did buy the 124 grain for the same price as the 115 (I was surprised!)
    2. I thought that was the case, in my readings.
    [FONT=&amp]
    [/FONT]

    Agreed, based on his reply, seems like OP found an ammo that the 365 just doesn't like. Unless it shows itself to have issues with several different loads, I wouldn't sweat it too much.

    3. That's what I'm hoping and will prove my next range trip, which should be this evening after work.

    I'd just make sure that it doesn't bobble with your defense ammo of choice by putting enough of that exact load through it to prove to yourself if it is reliable, and then pick a range round that comes as close as possible to matching that in bullet weight, etc for general range shooting.
    Some guns just don't pair up well with some ammo.
    That said, OP, a revolver is not an infallible machine either. Same goes for running some defense ammo through it as well. Revolvers can bind up with certain ammo, etc too.

    4. I know, and have had such happen, but never in my CC (bought new).

    Also, "having" defense ammo is not what I commented on. I suggest you run enough of the specific defense load of your choice through your carry guns to make sure that it in fact is reliable. As you have found out, some ammo does not work well in some guns. I'd suggest finding some 50 round LE boxes of the defense ammo you have chosen, online, and buy enough of it for a good test.

    5. Thanks for the input!

    Repeating for emphasis.
    My P365 is approach 1000 rounds. It has ran everything including some crappy lead reloads from the 1990's that jam up many a gun.
    I doubt this is the case but the P365 is a small gun and its not hard to get a thumb up onto the slide...

    6. Never my thumb: I have a habit that I like of holding the right thumb down with the left thumb (which I know is not the correct way).

    As stated above, if its just one brand of ammo, I wouldn't sweat it at all.

    7. Thanks for the encouragement. I tend to overreact about anything and especially about gun safety, CC and the like.
     

    mcapo

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    OK… Just to serve the greater good, I took the P365 and 100 rounds of Fiocchi 115 gr to the range today.

    Did not have a single failure with that ammo.

    I did have a couple instances where the slide would not lock back in the 12 round magazine. The gun is sitting at 850 rounds without any kind of a stoppage. It’s been 500 rounds since a cleaning and the mags have never been cleaned.

    I am guessing with a good cleaning and proper lubrication, the lock back issue will be solved.

    This gun has earned its way into a CCW role. Thoroughly impressed with every aspect of its performance and characteristics.
     

    Mattroth54

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    I’m at 1500 and change though my 365. Most were 100g reloads with vey short oal’s. Only 1 ftf and that might have been me thumbing the slide. Also, 2 fail to fire, but those were 380’s that snuck into the 9mm reloading. I do now hate 380.
     

    WebSnyper

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    OK… Just to serve the greater good, I took the P365 and 100 rounds of Fiocchi 115 gr to the range today.

    Did not have a single failure with that ammo.

    I did have a couple instances where the slide would not lock back in the 12 round magazine. The gun is sitting at 850 rounds without any kind of a stoppage. It’s been 500 rounds since a cleaning and the mags have never been cleaned.

    I am guessing with a good cleaning and proper lubrication, the lock back issue will be solved.

    This gun has earned its way into a CCW role. Thoroughly impressed with every aspect of its performance and characteristics.

    Good to know. Wonder if doddg's gun is just tight and needs to be worked a bit and then it may like the Fiocchi.
     

    doddg

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    Another range time with Sig 365 (and others) using 4 kinds of ammo and had no problem with any of it today:
    a. Fiocchi 115 grain
    b. RWS Match Grade 124 grain
    c. Winchester 124 grain
    d. Blazer Brass 115 grain

    I don't understand: the Fiocchi had no issue today in any gun (yesterday just the Sig 365 and once with the Shield.


    20' with only the Sig 365 with 4 brands of ammo
    gdwyn1a.jpg




    30' with only Fiocchi 115 grain ammo with 4 different 9mms
    UpjmtHX.jpg


    I bought the Sig 365 with the idea of it replacing the Shield M/P 9mm.
    It came with 2 or 3 mags when I bought it, and I bought 5 more at a great price so someone will want to buy it with many mags.
    I do love the way it feels in my hand, but it is now outdated with the Sig 365.
    The Shield is perfect for its utility for me, but now that I'm willing to spend more for a gun, it will have to go.
     
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    WebSnyper

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    Another range time with Sig 365 (and others) using 4 kinds of ammo and had no problem with any of it today:
    a. Fiocchi 115 grain
    b. RWS Match Grade 124 grain
    c. Winchester 124 grain
    d. Blazer Brass 115 grain

    I don't understand: the Fiocchi had no issue today in any gun (yesterday just the Sig 365 and once with the Shield.


    20' with only the Sig 365 with 4 brands of ammo




    30' with only Fiocchi 115 grain ammo with 4 different 9mms


    I bought the Sig 365 with the idea of it replacing the Shield M/P 9mm.
    It came with 2 or 3 mags when I bought it, and I bought 5 more at a great price so someone will want to buy it with many mags.
    I do love the way it feels in my hand, but it is now outdated with the Sig 365.
    The Shield is perfect for its utility for me, but now that I'm willing to spend more for a gun, it will have to go.

    So quick questions, and no judgement, just curiosity. How many rounds (roughly, not asking for an exact count) were through the 365 before introducing the Fiocchi ammo? Did you happen to clean and lubricate the 365 at any time (either before first shooting, before or after the initial issues with the Fiocchi?)

    Again, just curious as to break in, etc before and after the issues?
     
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