Army says new war-ready M17 pistol will change modern combat

[Expat]

https://www.foxnews.com/tech/army-says-new-war-ready-m17-pistol-will-change-modern-combat

Earlier this year, soldiers with the Army’s 101st Airborne Division were the first to receive the services’ new high-tech 9mm pistol engineered to give dismounted infantry a vastly increased ability to fight and close with an enemy in caves, tunnels, crawl spaces, houses and other close quarter combat scenarios.
Service weapons developers and soldiers say the new M17 and M18 pistol, designed as a next-generation handgun to follow the Army’s current M9 Beretta, is expected to substantially change combat tactics, techniques and strategies for dismounted soldiers on-the-move.

 

[T.Lex]

"Change modern combat"?

That may SOUND like hyperbole, but I kinda believe it. Never before have troops had the ability to throw their gun on the ground as a distraction and have it actually discharge (once) in the direction of the enemy.

That's a real game changer.

 

[KokomoDave]

Game changer? I remember the stuff I was involved in definitely not being a game! These NFGs have it made!!
I'd take a rattling 1911 war bore over a new Sig M17.

 

[Hop]

I guess it's better than the original but I really really like the M9A3 better. Too bad it didn't win.

 

[eric001]

I just saw one site listing the cost of the M17 at over $1100--not sure if that was for the civilianized version or true military, as it doesn't really matter to me.

Why in the world would Sig Sauer get such a huge deal when the CZ75 platform is not only proven by time and experience but WAY cheaper...and doesn't have the one drop, one boom issue that Sig supposedly fixed?

These things mystify me.

The article promoted ergonomic grip, external safety, and night sights. Huh. Guess they never looked at any of the 75 variants.

Any real ideas why CZ wasn't even in the running on this one???

 

[Expat]

I just saw one site listing the cost of the M17 at over $1100--not sure if that was for the civilianized version or true military, as it doesn't really matter to me.

Why in the world would Sig Sauer get such a huge deal when the CZ75 platform is not only proven by time and experience but WAY cheaper...and doesn't have the one drop, one boom issue that Sig supposedly fixed?

These things mystify me.

The article promoted ergonomic grip, external safety, and night sights. Huh. Guess they never looked at any of the 75 variants.

Any real ideas why CZ wasn't even in the running on this one???

As I recall, the .mil price on the Sig was just a couple hundred bucks.

 

[dfcrane]

I just saw one site listing the cost of the M17 at over $1100--not sure if that was for the civilianized version or true military, as it doesn't really matter to me.

Why in the world would Sig Sauer get such a huge deal when the CZ75 platform is not only proven by time and experience but WAY cheaper...and doesn't have the one drop, one boom issue that Sig supposedly fixed?

These things mystify me.

The article promoted ergonomic grip, external safety, and night sights. Huh. Guess they never looked at any of the 75 variants.

Any real ideas why CZ wasn't even in the running on this one???

I don't remember CZ even submitting a firearm/quote package.

I guess CZ did submit the CZ P-09 but was not chosen.

 

[Leadeye]

Always follow the money

 

[croy]

I wish they would have went with the glock that ended up being the 19x. That's the best glock ive ever shot.

 

[snowwalker]

"The Army is now acquiring thousands of full-size XM17 and compact XM18 versions of the new 9mm pistol. The XM17 fires 147 grain jacketed hollow point ammunition."

This is from the article. It is my understanding that 'hollow points' can't be used by our armed forces, has this changed?

 

[Expat]

"The Army is now acquiring thousands of full-size XM17 and compact XM18 versions of the new 9mm pistol. The XM17 fires 147 grain jacketed hollow point ammunition."

This is from the article. It is my understanding that 'hollow points' can't be used by our armed forces, has this changed?

Yes.
https://loadoutroom.com/44886/u-s-army-adopts-hollow-point-ammo-m-17-m-18/

 

[Peacekeeper3073]

As I recall, the .mil price on the Sig was just a couple hundred bucks.

$280 I recall reading somewhere.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

“You can close with the enemy in close quarter combat and engage the enemy with one hand. It is tough to do this with the M9,” Lt. Col. Martin O’Donnell, spokesman for the 101st Airborne, told reporters earlier this year.

The new pistol is built with a more ergonomic configuration to better accommodate the widest possible range of hand grip techniques for soldiers and enable rapid hand switching as needed in combat. The M17 is said by developers to bring much tighter dispersion, improved versatility and next-generation accuracy.

Huh...I've never shot the civilian version of the Beretta but what is it about the Sig that allows you shoot it with one hand or switch hands that cannot be done as readily with the Berretta?

 

[ECS686]

"The Army is now acquiring thousands of full-size XM17 and compact XM18 versions of the new 9mm pistol. The XM17 fires 147 grain jacketed hollow point ammunition."

This is from the article. It is my understanding that 'hollow points' can't be used by our armed forces, has this changed?

YES in certian circumstances. The use if JHP Ammo is only restricted in war by the Hague convention but it is not restricted for Military LE applications. When I was in the USAF as a Security Forces/CATM Instructor the USAF adopted 124 gr 9mm JHP for stateside use by Security Forces for LE and resource protection duties at stateside bases in 1999. USAF JAG rules stteside use was bit a violation of Hague .

That is still done today however when deployed the USAF revert to NATO Ball in 9mm.
As far as other services I don't believe any of the other services have do e anything but talk about JHP use.

There are other "circumstances" where some SOF can and have used JHP but good luck getting details in that.

As far as the Sig and other post about $1,000 price tags Wow. Top Guns in Terre Haute have the Military 320 for 599-630 both with and without the safety

 

[NyleRN]

I have reason to believe that those interviewed for this article and those that reported it have a touch of MR

 

[Hohn]

Yes.
https://loadoutroom.com/44886/u-s-army-adopts-hollow-point-ammo-m-17-m-18/

Those JHPs pictured sure look like the Winchester design ethos. Black Talon/SXT/Ranger/PDX1, etc.

 

[Hohn]

Huh...I've never shot the civilian version of the Beretta but what is it about the Sig that allows you shoot it with one hand or switch hands that cannot be done as readily with the Berretta?

Ambi controls were a requirement for the program, but I'm not sure if it's full-time ambi or merely convertible.

Sig has ambi safety, Beretta doesn't. I'm not sure if the Sig/gov models have ambidextrous slide catch, mag release, etc.

IIRC, the P320 isn't fully ambidextrous of of the box, just convertible.

 

[KellyinAvon]

YES in certian circumstances. The use if JHP Ammo is only restricted in war by the Hague convention but it is not restricted for Military LE applications. When I was in the USAF as a Security Forces/CATM Instructor the USAF adopted 124 gr 9mm JHP for stateside use by Security Forces for LE and resource protection duties at stateside bases in 1999. USAF JAG rules stteside use was bit a violation of Hague .

That is still done today however when deployed the USAF revert to NATO Ball in 9mm.
As far as other services I don't believe any of the other services have do e anything but talk about JHP use.

There are other "circumstances" where some SOF can and have used JHP but good luck getting details in that.

As far as the Sig and other post about $1,000 price tags Wow. Top Guns in Terre Haute have the Military 320 for 599-630 both with and without the safety

I remember an Ammo troop at Taegu (that was 25 years ago for me) talking about issuing HP ammo to OSI agents at his previous base. JHP violates the Hague Conventions. Armor-piecing incendiary? That's cool.

 

[Ark]

You are smoking the serious ganja if you think every armory is gonna have a box full of Sig frames and backstraps for every solder to customize their own snowflake pistol. Also today I learned it is, apparently, a physical impossibility to operate an M9 with the left hand.

The M17 may well change infantry combat, but the change will be that it is so dirt cheap that more people will get handguns who otherwise would not have been issued them. I'm not sure exactly how it works now, but IIRC part of the onus for the M17 was the promise of buying more and issuing them to more people. So, I dunno, maybe there will be a radical change when Private Schmuckatelli can draw his own pistol instead of looking behind him and saying "hey bro pass up a nine" before going in a tunnel? Or maybe there will be a new doctrine for throwing it around the corner as indirect fire.

 

[Doublehelix]

Huh...I've never shot the civilian version of the Beretta but what is it about the Sig that allows you shoot it with one hand or switch hands that cannot be done as readily with the Berretta?

$280.