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  1. #3311
    Mickey Mantle Trigger Time's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by churchmouse View Post
    PCR day.



    Dishwasher is in. Pick it up after I get the PCR. A man has got to set priority's.
    Nice!!
    We are swapping dishwashers in our houses. Old one (which is brand new and wasnt cheap) is going into the new house and that one is getting installed in our old house. So we have 2 dishwasher un-installs and 2 dishwasher installs coming up. What a pain in the ass
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  2. #3312
    "Carlos Spicyweiner" T-DOGG's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by WebSnyper View Post
    Vertical foregrip on a pistol is a no go anyway, from what I understood, and if I was going to have a rifle, I'd just use a stock and not a brace, so I'm not sure that this is much of a concern, but I haven't fully read everything on this letter either.
    This is true if a person has an actual "pistol" by legal definition. If the overall length of the "pistol" is more than 26", it is no longer by definition categorized as a "pistol" and is considered a "firearm", therefore allowing the installation of a vertical foregrip. For example, an AR-15 with a barrel length of 12.5" with an SBA3 brace would have an overall length greater than 26" and be okay to run a vertical foregrip. What the video and letter are clarifying is that when measuring a pistol for overall length, only receiver extensions that are necessary for the firearm to function (like an AR buffer tube that contains moving parts inside of it) are factored into the length. For an example of something that has a receiver extension that wouldn't factor into overall length, a piston driven Sig MCX or MPX pistol. Being that those guns will function with no receiver extension attached, therefore the extensions do not factor into overall length. An AK-47 pistol or CZ Scorpion pistol would also be grouped into the same category with the Sigs I mentioned, because they also do not require a receiver extension to properly function.

    I hope this helps make sense. I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice and should not be construed as such.

  3. #3313
    "Carlos Spicyweiner" T-DOGG's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Time View Post
    If a pistols overall length is 26" or more then its a firearm. Its traditionally had to do about the concealability.
    What ATF is saying that if it folds then the receiver extention csnnot be counted towards the Overall length so you have to measure from the end of the barrel threads (or approved attached muzzle break; pinned & welded ect), to the end of the reciever itself (as in the serialized piece). But if you are using a non folding receiver extention tube then you can count it towards the OAL. Its stupis not picking. Because another idiot wrote a damn letter asking ATF their opinion.
    If they ever arrest someone for this I hope they (atf) get taken to court again and lose AGAIN.
    This includes pistols with or without a brace. The rubber or plastic brace part has never been legally able to be counted towards the length anyways. So if you have a brace that slides over the tube and sticks over by 2" you've never been allowed to count that 2" towards the OAL. You must measure from threaded barrel end to tube end to get your OAL
    I was still typing my reply as you posted yours, apologies. I feel like I need to clarify again that just because a receiver extension is fixed and does not fold, does not factor into overall length if the firearm can function without it.

  4. #3314
    Snowman's Blocker aka Bandit mcapo's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by T-DOGG View Post
    I hope this helps make sense. I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice and should not be construed as such.
    Crap, I alway take your advice as gospel and now you tell me this?
    Don't blame me....it is Turbo's fault.

  5. #3315
    Mickey Mantle Trigger Time's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by T-DOGG View Post
    This is true if a person has an actual "pistol" by legal definition. If the overall length of the "pistol" is more than 26", it is no longer by definition categorized as a "pistol" and is considered a "firearm", therefore allowing the installation of a vertical foregrip. For example, an AR-15 with a barrel length of 12.5" with an SBA3 brace would have an overall length greater than 26" and be okay to run a vertical foregrip. What the video and letter are clarifying is that when measuring a pistol for overall length, only receiver extensions that are necessary for the firearm to function (like an AR buffer tube that contains moving parts inside of it) are factored into the length. For an example of something that has a receiver extension that wouldn't factor into overall length, a piston driven Sig MCX or MPX pistol. Being that those guns will function with no receiver extension attached, therefore the extensions do not factor into overall length. An AK-47 pistol or CZ Scorpion pistol would also be grouped into the same category with the Sigs I mentioned, because they also do not require a receiver extension to properly function.

    I hope this helps make sense. I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice and should not be construed as such.
    Theyre also including folding adapters even the ones that use a integral tube that is required for the operation. I think.
    Its BS if thats the case.
    If they are just meaning it like you said (cant count the empty tube on piston pistols or like the sig style guns) then yeah that seems obvious and was pretty clear before to me at least.
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  6. #3316
    Mickey Mantle Trigger Time's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by T-DOGG View Post
    I was still typing my reply as you posted yours, apologies. I feel like I need to clarify again that just because a receiver extension is fixed and does not fold, does not factor into overall length if the firearm can function without it.
    Right. Like you said.
    I keep forgetting these piston guns are out there that dont use traditional buffer systems
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  7. #3317
    Grandmaster KJQ6945's Avatar

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  8. #3318
    "Carlos Spicyweiner" T-DOGG's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Time View Post
    Theyre also including folding adapters even the ones that use a integral tube that is required for the operation. I think.
    Its BS if thats the case.
    If they are just meaning it like you said (cant count the empty tube on piston pistols or like the sig style guns) then yeah that seems obvious and was pretty clear before to me at least.
    If the tube folds, but is required to be in the unfolded position for the firearm to function properly, then it is measured in the unfolded position.

    The empty tube that doesn't contribute to proper function of the firearms was not obvious to me prior to this video/letter being released, but makes sense now that some light has been shed on it.

    Stupid Un-Constitutional Firearms Laws for Dummies version: if the gun will shoot/cycle properly folded, then you measure for overall length with it folded

  9. #3319
    Mickey Mantle Trigger Time's Avatar

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    But i already bought the b&t
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  10. #3320
    Mickey Mantle Trigger Time's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by T-DOGG View Post
    If the tube folds, but is required to be in the unfolded position for the firearm to function properly, then it is measured in the unfolded position.

    The empty tube that doesn't contribute to proper function of the firearms was not obvious to me prior to this video/letter being released, but makes sense now that some light has been shed on it.

    Stupid Un-Constitutional Firearms Laws for Dummies version: if the gun will shoot/cycle properly folded, then you measure for overall length with it folded
    Ok cool, then nothing has changed for me.
    Ive always understood what the "integral part of operation" meant and followed it.
    I thought they were now coming after people who were using side folders like the LAW tactical adapter on normal function DI AR's.
    So nothing has changed. They just clarrified the long standing rules and some 2nd amendment journalists hyped it up for no reason.

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