Sig-Sauer P365 SAS First Impressions

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  • cbhausen

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    I got out to the range today and put a few rounds through my new P365 SAS. I’ll start by saying recoil-wise I didn’t notice a huge difference between the SAS and my regular P365 but I didn’t shoot them back to back for comparison. I also don’t mind having to slingshot the slide after inserting a loaded magazine when the gun runs empty and the slide locks back. That’s how I do it anyway.

    Before I took it out to the range I put a magnetic laser bore sighter on the muzzle and it looked like the gun should shoot a bit low and to the right of point of aim, probably an inch or two at 7 to 10 yards and, consequently, 2 or 6 inches to the right at 25 yards. The sight is supposed to be non-adjustable, more on those points later...

    I didn’t field strip it before shooting it, I just pulled it out of the plastic bag and fired away (that factory lube is smoky!). The trigger (both pull and reset) is identical to my born-on December 18, 2018 P365 which is to say very good. I was shooting outside in bright light so the Meorolight FT Bullseye sight was super bright and easy to align. I knew going in that this, and most most Sig handguns use a combat hold which means point of impact should be centered on the front sight dot (or in this case the only sight dot, surrounded by a concentric ring). There is no “sight radius”, so to speak. Several have complained about the slide (with embedded sight) covering the target but I really don’t see any difference between that and the front and rear sight blades covering the target because the rear sight blade is usually almost as wide as the slide anyway.

    The attached images show 5 consecutive 10-shot groups on freshly-painted steel at 7 yards. All were slow-fire, done unsupported, standing, with a two hand isosceles stance. I consider myself OK shooting in this mode and downright terrible when speed shooting, mostly due to being really nervous and jittery at Friday Night Steel. I definitely have to get over that and maybe get a shot timer and go to work in the meantime, maybe starting with controlled pairs and working my way up from there.

    I know this pistol in general and sighting system in particular have gotten a lot of really mixed reviews lately but I can tell you I really like it, at least in daylight conditions. I will have to try it in low light, maybe on an indoor range with no in-bay lighting first, before I can form an opinion on the low-light efficacy of this sight.

    It is important to note here that I am blind in one eye so this FT Bullseye (or a red dot for that matter) do not “paint” the target the way they would with someone shooting with both eyes open, which I understand to be a big advantage of this over conventional sights. I handed the pistol to a couple of people at the range and they both said “wow!”. Even within one eye, I find it a big advantage to only have to focus on one thing, the green dot and circle. There is no having to acquire the front sight and then bring the rear sight into alignment with the front sight in focus and the rear sight and target out of focus. Put the dot in the circle, cover the target, squeeze, and bang-ding!

    It’s so easy a caveman (or a total nOOb) could do it. And one really nice thing I noticed about it is the instant feedback it gives about your trigger press. You can literally see the dot being pulled toward the circle with a bad trigger press. And the shot goes in the direction of this convergence. If the dot and circle converge at 12 o’clock your shot goes high. If they converge at 5 o’clock your shot goes mostly low and a bit to the right. Super simple. This also makes feedback during dry firing just as valuable.

    Back to the non-adjustability of this sight... I called Sig when I noticed it appeared to be off a bit and the CSR told me the sight is only guaranteed to hit a torso target at 7 yards. It certainly does that with no problems. I asked if I could crack the screws loose and maybe move the sight a little bit to correct the windage error. I got a warning about voiding the warranty so I just took it to the range and shot it. I may still try that but from what I understand they use some pretty stout threadlocker on those screws so I would probably have to heat them with a pencil tip soldering iron before trying to loosen them. The sight also causes the pistol to shoot slightly low. The only remedy I see for that is to maybe shim or put some punch marks on the bottom side of the sight behind the screws. I will know more if and when I take the sight off and I will post images if I try to “zero” it.

    For now I’m pretty happy to be shooting four out of five of those plates with a 2 inch group or less and one at 3 inches or less first time out. That more than meets the requirements for a defensive handgun at practical combat distances. As for speed of acquisition and how this sighting system affects a fast shooter, I’m not the guy to ask. But don’t let anyone tell you you can’t be accurate enough in a combat situation with this sight, you can, at least under the conditions described.
     

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    Hopper

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    I'm not a Sig guy, not at all. But I think that flush-mounted sight system is frickin' GENIUS. I'm very particular about my sights, and when holding one at a LGS last weekend, the sights sure appeared to be centered on the slide to me. Also, the way they are dovetailed into the slide makes it look like there's no room for windage adjustment. Please do post an update if you decide to wrestle those screws a bit. Just thinking out loud that my laser bore sight tool doesn't always give me a perfectly accurate indication the sights are on or off... mine goes in the tip of the barrel with a plastic adapter for the cartridge size, and I don't think I always get it in perfectly flush. It's usually close though, and from looking at your plates, I wonder if the sights are more on-target than you originally suspected.

    I know there's plenty of naysayers out there who think porting is silly, and I more or less used to be in that camp. But after shooting my son's Shield PC... it just doesn't have much "snap" to it for being such a small package and I do think the porting on that gun does help.

    Really good report on the Sig, thanks for taking the time to write this up!
     

    cbhausen

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    I'm not a Sig guy, not at all. But I think that flush-mounted sight system is frickin' GENIUS. I'm very particular about my sights, and when holding one at a LGS last weekend, the sights sure appeared to be centered on the slide to me. Also, the way they are dovetailed into the slide makes it look like there's no room for windage adjustment. Please do post an update if you decide to wrestle those screws a bit. Just thinking out loud that my laser bore sight tool doesn't always give me a perfectly accurate indication the sights are on or off... mine goes in the tip of the barrel with a plastic adapter for the cartridge size, and I don't think I always get it in perfectly flush. It's usually close though, and from looking at your plates, I wonder if the sights are more on-target than you originally suspected.

    I know there's plenty of naysayers out there who think porting is silly, and I more or less used to be in that camp. But after shooting my son's Shield PC... it just doesn't have much "snap" to it for being such a small package and I do think the porting on that gun does help.

    Really good report on the Sig, thanks for taking the time to write this up!

    Thanks. My bore sighter has a flat magnetic base that goes on the barrel crown. I have confirmed it is collimated correctly by rotating it and checking the alignment relative to the slide, which doesn’t change through a full rotation.

    The pistol isn’t “snappy” at all but I used to shoot a Glock 27 so that perception is understandable. It does look like there’s a little bit of room for the sight to wiggle around in the milled recess. I have examined it under magnification and it does look like it’s canted a bit to the left at the front, which would send the shots to the right. It also does look like it’s a little high in the front which would move the point of impact down. I think one way or another I can probably massage it into a proper “zero” if I’m willing to take the risk.

    I will post pictures with the bore sighter installed showing the discrepancy later tonight after the kids are in bed.
     

    Hopper

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    Ahh, I get it now with the bore sighter. Funny, I always give mine a spin too so I can be sure it's seated correctly. Never knew there was such a thing as a magnetic option - tell me what yours is if you remember. Mine is a LaserLyte.

    Thanks!
     

    doddg

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    Walked into the gun shop this pm to buy a rifle case and Fred behind the counter was holding up a gun, sighting it it off to the side.
    I asked him if that was a Sig 365 and he said it was the SAS.
    He handed it to me and I got to line up those new sights I read about, but not for long since I had to go with the guy that brought the rifle case to ring up..
    It was green with a circle and down in the slide which was different.
    Wish I could have spent a few minutes with it instead of 30 seconds: intriguing.
     

    cbhausen

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    Here is the laser bore sight I used. It’s a Firefield FF39000 and goes right on the barrel crown. The second image shows the alignment on a fence about 40 feet away. The misalignment doesn’t look like much here but it’s actually about 5 inches right at 40 feet. I will probably take the set up to an indoor range and shoot a larger target resting from the bench to verify point of impact before attempting to “zero” the sight.
     

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    Hopper

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    OK, I really dig that laser bore tool, it's next on my list, thank you! And now I do clearly see how it's just slightly off-cant with the sights and POI. Not much, but enough that it would eat at your sight-picture OCD.

    Thanks CBH!
     

    cbhausen

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    I looked at it again this morning using a 6 inch wide fence post as a measuring tool and it’s only off 3 or 4 inches at 40 feet. Probably not worth messing with but that never stopped me before.
     

    cbhausen

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    Well, I went ahead and took on those screws after heating each one for 30-45 seconds with a 25W (750 Degrees F) pencil-tip soldering iron and they came out with only a screwdriver and hand torque. You have to use the right driver bit here which is why Sig warned me about voiding the warranty on the pistol. I’ll follow up with the exact bit type later.

    As I suspected, there’s enough clearance in the sight well to correct for small windage errors so that’s what I did. I simply pushed the front of the sight toward the ejection port side and snugged the screws and now the windage is dead-on. And there’s plenty of room fore and aft of the mounting screws to shim elevation if necessary as well.

    I also disassembled the sight itself because, well, I’m like that... and by playing around with some pieces of paper used as shims I was able to determine that with some very fine sanding it’s also possible to correct windage errors by sanding the clear plastic part where it meets the rearmost main body of the sight (the part that actually gets attached by the two mounting screws).

    And for what it’s worth, the sight does say Meprolight on it for those wondering if that’s who makes it. I’ll follow up with some detailed images tonight. But the bottom line is there’s simply no reason to put up with this type of sight being misaligned. I can see the factory not being able to take the time to massage each one into alignment but it’s easy for the owner to do.
     

    Hopper

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    I simply pushed the front of the sight toward the ejection port side and snugged the screws and now the windage is dead-on.
    Fantastic, glad to hear this was an easy fix! I know I posted earlier about being obsessive with my sights being dead-on... this would have driven me bat$h!t crazy. But all in all sounds like it was a pretty easy fix, glad to hear it! And I'm sure you bore sighted it to be sure with that magnetic tool (that I still have to pick up for myself). Good deal, glad you're back in business!
     

    cbhausen

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    No need to make this any more complicated than it is (and I was). It takes a T9 Torx to loosen the screws and you don’t even need to remove them if you don’t want to.

    Further disassembly requires a 2mm hex wrench. Here are some details of the guts for anyone interested. A single coiled fiber optic stand gathers ambient light. Because the screws and screw holes in the sight are countersunk commonsense says we should not be able to alter the alignment much but indeed we can. I simply wedged some card stock between left forward side of the sight and adjacent sight well wall and re-torqued the screws by feel only. I didn’t bother reapplying thread locker. If the come loose I will.

    It sure seems like it would be awfully easy to machine up red dot adapter plates to fit in that hole...
     

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    cozog

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    Just a bit more information from a casual gun family....
    Went shopping for a compact 9mm for girlfriend to use as CCW today. We literally just got back from the range. We looked at G43, G43X, Shield and Ruger EC9. And then she holds the P365 and says "Wow, I like this one!".
    Looking at it under store room lighting, the "green dot" sight was outstanding. Easy to see and easy to line up on target. We both really liked it.
    Went to Parabellum to rent one and was very disappointed.

    First, the recessed slide stop was very difficult to engage. I had to jam my thumbnail into it and press down hard. Was a 2-handed operation and I would say near impossible to do with your shooting hand thumb.
    More importantly was the sight. The ambient light at the range, in the semi enclosed lane, was much dimmer than store lighting. This had the unwanted effect of dimming not only the center dot but the outer ring of the sight. They both seemed to get a bit "fuzzy" in the low light, making it very difficult to tell if I had the gun centered on target or not as it was just one big blur. It was pretty frustrating and disappointing to say the least.

    So we switched to the non-SAS P365 with iron sights. Now we could aim properly! The gun was enjoyable to shoot and we both had nice groupings at 7 yard range. But sadly, they were all a couple inches down and to the left. Adjusting my aim fixed that, but as cbhausen said, you'd think SIG could sell this gun with properly aligned sights. Oh, and the slide stop is not recessed, so it operates easily with your shooting thumb.

    Since this is going to be her CCW and we can't anticipate the light conditions when the weapon is needed, we're going with the iron sights version. Or maybe something else that suits her needs like the Hellcat. Although we didn't have time to shoot that one.

    I think the ambient light/green dot sight looks like a really good idea on paper, but didn't quite translate to reality very well.

    Just thought this info might help others looking at the SAS version.
     

    rkwhyte2

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    Just a bit more information from a casual gun family....
    Went shopping for a compact 9mm for girlfriend to use as CCW today. We literally just got back from the range. We looked at G43, G43X, Shield and Ruger EC9. And then she holds the P365 and says "Wow, I like this one!".
    Looking at it under store room lighting, the "green dot" sight was outstanding. Easy to see and easy to line up on target. We both really liked it.
    Went to Parabellum to rent one and was very disappointed.

    First, the recessed slide stop was very difficult to engage. I had to jam my thumbnail into it and press down hard. Was a 2-handed operation and I would say near impossible to do with your shooting hand thumb.
    More importantly was the sight. The ambient light at the range, in the semi enclosed lane, was much dimmer than store lighting. This had the unwanted effect of dimming not only the center dot but the outer ring of the sight. They both seemed to get a bit "fuzzy" in the low light, making it very difficult to tell if I had the gun centered on target or not as it was just one big blur. It was pretty frustrating and disappointing to say the least.

    So we switched to the non-SAS P365 with iron sights. Now we could aim properly! The gun was enjoyable to shoot and we both had nice groupings at 7 yard range. But sadly, they were all a couple inches down and to the left. Adjusting my aim fixed that, but as cbhausen said, you'd think SIG could sell this gun with properly aligned sights. Oh, and the slide stop is not recessed, so it operates easily with your shooting thumb.

    Since this is going to be her CCW and we can't anticipate the light conditions when the weapon is needed, we're going with the iron sights version. Or maybe something else that suits her needs like the Hellcat. Although we didn't have time to shoot that one.

    I think the ambient light/green dot sight looks like a really good idea on paper, but didn't quite translate to reality very well.

    Just thought this info might help others looking at the SAS version.

    I own one of the SAS models so I will try and address some of the points you have brought up.
    Yes the slide release is recessed you are meant to slingshot the slide to release it. You can lock the slide back with the release.
    I have shot mine several times indoors with both the lane light on and off. In all cases I could see the sights. You have to get it just so and then you get the sight picture. I'll be the first to admit it is different but the more I shoot it the better I like it.
    Nothing wrong with the X Ray sights on the regular P365 I like them a lot and may in the future buy one.

    Oh and welcome to the site.
     

    COOPADUP

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    Bought a used P365 and must have a bad front sight.
    Purchased it in daylight, so tough luck.
    Gonna replace it with an orange tritium sight which is easier for me to acquire anyway.
    Will take CB Hausen's experience into account when replacing. Two birds with one stone.
    Nice little gun with no failures of any kind after 250 rounds.
     

    Hop

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    Bump!

    I'm going to try shooting one of these today @ Carmel Point Blank. I think this sight is a great idea and since I took optics in college, am fascinated by designs like this.

    What I like about this sight is I do not need ANY glasses to see a blurry dot centered in a blurry circle. I have tested one in low light and if your eyes are in adjusted, you can see it fine for close up work. You should not be shooting in total darkness unless the threat is within bad breath range and in that case, you don't need sights anyway.

    Range report coming soon!
     

    Hop

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    Range report.

    I like the gun. The grip angle is not my style (too straight up) & after ~100 rounds, my trigger finger hurts a bit. I can deal with that for a small defense pistol.

    All targets shot at 7 yards. I changed glasses back and forth. My shooting glasses provide the clearest aiming dot but I could easily hit with without any glasses.

    1st shot went wild high right but all the rest were ~3" or smaller groups. All groups were off to the left. I may try CBH's windage trick.

    I tried 4 loads. All functioned and grouped similarly. 3rd pic, head shots using 147 grain hp.
    4th picture is what a perfectly aligned sight should look like. 5th is an intentionaly misaligned sight.

    Last pick is a quick as I could dump 10 rounds. All rounds landed on torso.
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    Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
     

    YooEssOfEh

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    P365 SAS owner here and first post! Thanks for the thoughts on SAS sight adjustment. Mr. Google was pretty light on usefulness about this topic. For the Bullseye sight adjustment, it's very simple and easy. First, use feeler gauges to measure your sight positioning. My SAS shot about 2" to the right at 7 yards using a supported bench hold. Measuring the position of the Bullseye sight with feeler gauges, mine had a 0.009" gap on the front left side of the sight and 005" gap on the front right side (i *think that's about right). This misalignment was imperceptible with the naked eye I could see the difference with magnification. Get a Torx T9 bit. Some bit sets only have a T8 and T10. Both "almost" fit. Please don't mar your firearm with the wrong tool for the job. The T9 screws are tiny tiny tiny so don't go nuts with a gorilla grip! Mine loosened up easily without heat. I then evened out the gap on each side of the sight and we'll see how she shoots tomorrow!

    Shoot straight and shoot often!
     
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