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  1. #11
    Master

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    I rests my wrists on a large sand bag for the initial zero on a pistol then, as others have said, I shoot it as I intend to use it to confirm or fine tune the zero.

    Slight changes in your grip, trigger finger placement, how you're seeing the sights, etc will effect POI at any given time. Thus the need to be able to call your shots.

  2. #12
    I still care....Really
    churchmouse's Avatar

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    Simple bore laser on all my guns. I have exactly 50 yards available to do this. It always has me close to center on paper. Too easy.
    AKA..Thor. Odin son. God of thunder.
    But you can call me John.....Force.

    If the brain were so simple we could understand it, we would be so simple we couldnít

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  3. #13
    Plinker

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    Quote Originally Posted by marvin02 View Post
    This is just my opinion, I am in no way an expert.
    I really appreciate your reply. To be honest, much of it is completely new to me so Iím learning a lot each time I start reading.

    I now have a decent understanding of why I was hitting high at 50yd with a zero at 25yd. Anxious to get back out and practice.

  4. #14
    Grandmaster doddg's Avatar

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    This is some fine reading.
    Especially when I'm going to embark on going from only 25 yards with the .22 rifles to 50 yds.
    Then 75, and then there is the quintessential 100 yds.
    I'm probably going to find out why people say you should spend as much on your scope as you did for your rifle.
    My idea of fun.

  5. #15
    Grandmaster Tombs's Avatar

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    When it comes to zeroing a pistol, doing it from a rest hasn't always resulted in great results.

    You really just need to shoot it quite a lot, average the group's center and shift the sights until you average your shots where you want them.
    Do not interrupt your enemy while they are making a mistake.

  6. #16
    Grandmaster doddg's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tombs View Post
    When it comes to zeroing a pistol, doing it from a rest hasn't always resulted in great results.
    You really just need to shoot it quite a lot, average the group's center and shift the sights until you average your shots where you want them.

    There is such a difference between my POI when using a hand rest & free hand/standing.
    I try to get the POA & POI we coincide on the rest so I'll know the difference (whose off) between the gun's sights & myself (otherwise known as the X factor ).
    That way I know to adjust me or the sights.

    When using a rest, I just put my hands on my bean bag (s), depending on height needed, & don't bother resting the barrel of the gun on the rubber part of the hard plastic rest.
    Is that OK, or am I doing it wrong: is there a better approach?
    When is watch people using a handgun in videos, I see people mostly resting the hands on something & not the barrel.

  7. #17
    Expert russc2542's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by doddg View Post
    There is such a difference between my POI when using a hand rest & free hand/standing.
    I try to get the POA & POI we coincide on the rest so I'll know the difference (whose off) between the gun's sights & myself (otherwise known as the X factor ).
    That way I know to adjust me or the sights.

    When using a rest, I just put my hands on my bean bag (s), depending on height needed, & don't bother resting the barrel of the gun on the rubber part of the hard plastic rest.
    Is that OK, or am I doing it wrong: is there a better approach?
    When is watch people using a handgun in videos, I see people mostly resting the hands on something & not the barrel.
    Just putting your hands (or better yet forearms) on the rest is as close as you're going to get to offhand. Think of it this way, everyone makes a big deal about free-floating rifle barrels and always loading the bipod the same in order to be consistent and let the gun do the same thing each time, handguns are the same but because the pistol barrel's locked to the frame, the weight-to-power ratio and leverage lengths, and that you and how you hold the pistol are integral part of the system, you'll never get the same POI off a rest as offhand.

    How you- and how tight you hold the pistol is an integral part of it. How the gun moves within your hand before the bullet leaves the barrel is the hardest part of pistol accuracy. Your skin is kinda loose on the innards, the muscles do have some give, there's squishy fat layers and muscles between the gun and hard bones, even the bones can move around. Your hands in free air hanging from your shoulders put different pressure on the gun than having a bag underneath pushing up on the bit of flesh on the heel of your hand. Even sitting vs standing with the same part of your hand on a rest is going to shift slightly because the rest of your body bracing for recoil will be different (unless you're really good (or bad lol))

    Same as a rifle won't shoot the same if you lean into the bipod vs pull back vs in a sling vs offhand unsupported. Free floated barrel will be less affected but is not completely immune.

    Kinda like gel-tests. it's a socially acceptable "all things being equal" comparison between different bullets but doesn't really match real world variable densities in a body (fat, muscle, organs, bones). A rest can give you an indication of mechanical accuracy between pistols but not real world accuracy (or poi) of a person with a pistol.

  8. #18
    Master Hohn's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by russc2542 View Post

    Kinda like gel-tests. it's a socially acceptable "all things being equal" comparison between different bullets but doesn't really match real world variable densities in a body (fat, muscle, organs, bones). A rest can give you an indication of mechanical accuracy between pistols but not real world accuracy (or poi) of a person with a pistol.
    Perfect analogy. Thanks for that great post.

  9. #19
    Tetsu ōkami Ruger_Ronin's Avatar

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    Excellent thread OP. Lots of good info here.

    I try to avoid using a bench for pistol sighting. Once I'm sighted within comfort zone, I try to focus more on mechanics. If I am hitting spreads like your target, the sights are on and I work on grip, breath, trigger control, etc. Most of the accuracy is in the man not the machine.
    "You only get smarter by playing a smarter opponent"-Fundamentals of chess 1883

  10. #20
    Plinker

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    I took whatís been posted here and went to a practice yesterday. I know where the gunís POI should be. I find that I am hitting 2-3Ē to the left and a bit low.

    so Iím now trying to determine if itís my trigger pull or grip. The CZ Shadow is great 2 handed. But holding it with one hand I find it a bit awkward. Tried several different holds and came up with basically the same results.

    with that said, I did shoot better after benching the pistol over the weekend. I ranged rom 68 to 84 over 7 different times fire rounds. Just so I feel a little better about this post, I did shoot 2 90-3x and a 94-1x with the 22 before getting out the CZ.


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