How to bench rest a pistol and sight it in: Wisdom from the collective

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  • Triton

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    I’m sure there are many like me who would appreciate the sage advise of those who have more experience. Especially when it comes to fine tuning your pistol sights.

    What do you use to keep it steady?
    • I have bean bags. But I don’t feel confident that I’m getting a sure and steady shot. I’ve been told to use a vice with some rags to keep it from scuffing.

    At what distance do you start?
    • Should you start up close, 10-15 ft, zero it in there and then take it back in increments?
    • My personal goal is to be able to shoot 25 and 50 yds (NRA Bullseye).

    Sight Alignment: pro’s and con’s
    • Front sight covering hit spot
    • Hit spot sitting on top of front sight

    What else should be taken into consideration to truly fine tune your sights?

    Thanks in advanced
     

    Triton

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    I was able to sight in the CZ shadow so it hits just above the front sight at 25 yds.

    I was using a v shaped bean bag to set the barrel on and a rifle bean bag to support the bottom. Strange thing, when I checked my 22 I was hitting spot on, all red center. But when I switched to 50 yds I was hitting high.

    here’s a shot of 20 @ 50yds. Target was upside down. Shots are going high
     

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    marvin02

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    When you use your method to rest your gun are you getting good groups when you maintain the same point of aim? The point of impact doesn't matter yet. Are the shots grouping well? If they are then your method is fine and you can adjust your sights to bring POA and POI to same place, when you are using whatever site picture you want. When resting a pistol I have found that it is not enough for me to just rest the barrel. I like to use bags so that my hands are also rested, YMMV. If you aren't using a ransom rest that literally locks your pistol in place don't be afraid to throw out an outlier when analyzing your groups, i.e. looking at the best four out of five. Because no matter how solid your rest you may still introduce errors that wouldn't happen with a full mechanical rest.

    The distance you site in at will be determined by what you use the pistol for. For my steel challenge pistols I use 15 yards because that distance has worked for me. Since you want to do precision shooting you will need to sight in at the distances you will compete at.

    Here is a discussion of the various site pictures types.

    Shooters Calculator
    - allows you to see the effect of sighting in at various distances. If you set the chart step size to one yard you will get a chart that shows you the rise/drop of the bullet over the chart range you set. You may need to research the ammo you will be using to find the velocity out of your gun or one similar so that the charts are accurate.

    Here is an article I found useful, it is about sighting in a rifle but the discussion of trajectory was both interesting and useful to me.

    If you go back and forth between red dots and iron sights you may want to use combat hold on your iron sights as this is pretty much the equivalent of putting you dot on the point of impact.

    This is just my opinion, I am in no way an expert.

    6 o'clock hold discussion at the NRA blog


    Combat site picture discussion
     

    gmcttr

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    ...Strange thing, when I checked my 22 I was hitting spot on, all red center. But when I switched to 50 yds I was hitting high...

    Nothing strange about it.

    The top of the sights are above the bore of the barrel so the sights are adjusted so that the bullets trajectory is going up to make POA match POI at 25 yards. The bullet is still going up after 25 yards and hits high at 50.

    Use the shooter's calculator marvin02 linked to see how this works for various sight in distances.
     

    natdscott

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    Triton, I think you and I ought to chat on the phone. You’ve asked some very good questions, and since you were good enough to tell us what your goals are (THANK you), I’d like to help out.

    I just don’t feel like typing for an hour.

    If you want, shoot me a PM, and we’ll chat.

    I am an NRA/CMP Rifle guy obviously, but I’ve shot enough pistol and read enough of the rulebook to be dangerous.

    Bullseye is a kinda-specific subset of pistoleering, and has a lot higher demands on accuracy than most other uses and shooters.
     

    sloughfoot

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    Shoot from position. Don't bother with bench. Shoot a lot. You and the pistol are a system that must work together. Hundreds or thousands of rounds. You do not establish zero with a single box of ammo.

    I give the same advice for a rifle.
     

    natdscott

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    Shoot from position. Don't bother with bench. Shoot a lot. You and the pistol are a system that must work together. Hundreds or thousands of rounds. You do not establish zero with a single box of ammo.

    I give the same advice for a rifle.

    Good advice. For everybody EXCEPT true BR Shooters..and maybe the African rifle dudes, benches can be dispensed with as a means “zeroing” firearms to shoot accurately OFF said bench.

    Pistols are particularly particular about recoil consistency.
     

    sloughfoot

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    I forgot the most important thing. The ability to call your shot. Without that ability, you will never know where you are at. Bench or from position.

    I have shot pistol bullseye for many years. Zero's are constantly changing. Being able to call the shot leads to good results om a particular day.

    The bench is never considered. It gives false info. Even for loose self defense accuracy standards.
     

    gmcttr

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    I rests my wrists on a large sand bag for the initial zero on a pistol then, as others have said, I shoot it as I intend to use it to confirm or fine tune the zero.

    Slight changes in your grip, trigger finger placement, how you're seeing the sights, etc will effect POI at any given time. Thus the need to be able to call your shots.
     

    Triton

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    This is just my opinion, I am in no way an expert.

    I really appreciate your reply. To be honest, much of it is completely new to me so I’m learning a lot each time I start reading.

    I now have a decent understanding of why I was hitting high at 50yd with a zero at 25yd. Anxious to get back out and practice.
     

    doddg

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    This is some fine reading.
    Especially when I'm going to embark on going from only 25 yards with the .22 rifles to 50 yds.
    Then 75, and then there is the quintessential 100 yds.
    I'm probably going to find out why people say you should spend as much on your scope as you did for your rifle. :dunno:
    My idea of fun. :ingo:
     

    Tombs

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    When it comes to zeroing a pistol, doing it from a rest hasn't always resulted in great results.

    You really just need to shoot it quite a lot, average the group's center and shift the sights until you average your shots where you want them.
     

    doddg

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    When it comes to zeroing a pistol, doing it from a rest hasn't always resulted in great results.
    You really just need to shoot it quite a lot, average the group's center and shift the sights until you average your shots where you want them.


    There is such a difference between my POI when using a hand rest & free hand/standing.
    I try to get the POA & POI we coincide on the rest so I'll know the difference (whose off) between the gun's sights & myself (otherwise known as the X factor :laugh:).
    That way I know to adjust me or the sights.

    When using a rest, I just put my hands on my bean bag (s), depending on height needed, & don't bother resting the barrel of the gun on the rubber part of the hard plastic rest.
    Is that OK, or am I doing it wrong: is there a better approach?
    When is watch people using a handgun in videos, I see people mostly resting the hands on something & not the barrel.
     

    russc2542

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    There is such a difference between my POI when using a hand rest & free hand/standing.
    I try to get the POA & POI we coincide on the rest so I'll know the difference (whose off) between the gun's sights & myself (otherwise known as the X factor :laugh:).
    That way I know to adjust me or the sights.

    When using a rest, I just put my hands on my bean bag (s), depending on height needed, & don't bother resting the barrel of the gun on the rubber part of the hard plastic rest.
    Is that OK, or am I doing it wrong: is there a better approach?
    When is watch people using a handgun in videos, I see people mostly resting the hands on something & not the barrel.

    Just putting your hands (or better yet forearms) on the rest is as close as you're going to get to offhand. Think of it this way, everyone makes a big deal about free-floating rifle barrels and always loading the bipod the same in order to be consistent and let the gun do the same thing each time, handguns are the same but because the pistol barrel's locked to the frame, the weight-to-power ratio and leverage lengths, and that you and how you hold the pistol are integral part of the system, you'll never get the same POI off a rest as offhand.

    How you- and how tight you hold the pistol is an integral part of it. How the gun moves within your hand before the bullet leaves the barrel is the hardest part of pistol accuracy. Your skin is kinda loose on the innards, the muscles do have some give, there's squishy fat layers and muscles between the gun and hard bones, even the bones can move around. Your hands in free air hanging from your shoulders put different pressure on the gun than having a bag underneath pushing up on the bit of flesh on the heel of your hand. Even sitting vs standing with the same part of your hand on a rest is going to shift slightly because the rest of your body bracing for recoil will be different (unless you're really good (or bad lol))

    Same as a rifle won't shoot the same if you lean into the bipod vs pull back vs in a sling vs offhand unsupported. Free floated barrel will be less affected but is not completely immune.

    Kinda like gel-tests. it's a socially acceptable "all things being equal" comparison between different bullets but doesn't really match real world variable densities in a body (fat, muscle, organs, bones). A rest can give you an indication of mechanical accuracy between pistols but not real world accuracy (or poi) of a person with a pistol.
     

    Hohn

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    Kinda like gel-tests. it's a socially acceptable "all things being equal" comparison between different bullets but doesn't really match real world variable densities in a body (fat, muscle, organs, bones). A rest can give you an indication of mechanical accuracy between pistols but not real world accuracy (or poi) of a person with a pistol.

    Perfect analogy. Thanks for that great post.
     

    Ruger_Ronin

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    Excellent thread OP. Lots of good info here.

    I try to avoid using a bench for pistol sighting. Once I'm sighted within comfort zone, I try to focus more on mechanics. If I am hitting spreads like your target, the sights are on and I work on grip, breath, trigger control, etc. Most of the accuracy is in the man not the machine.
     

    Triton

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    I took what’s been posted here and went to a practice yesterday. I know where the gun’s POI should be. I find that I am hitting 2-3” to the left and a bit low.

    so I’m now trying to determine if it’s my trigger pull or grip. The CZ Shadow is great 2 handed. But holding it with one hand I find it a bit awkward. Tried several different holds and came up with basically the same results.

    with that said, I did shoot better after benching the pistol over the weekend. I ranged rom 68 to 84 over 7 different times fire rounds. Just so I feel a little better about this post, I did shoot 2 90-3x and a 94-1x with the 22 before getting out the CZ.
     
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