HK P7 vs PSP

[Indy_Guy_77]

Is there any easy way to tell these pistols apart?

The one I'm interested in (LNIB, 2 mags...) definitely has the heel magazine release. It also only has "P7" stamped into the frame.

What other "tells" are there in order for me to make an informed decision?

I PRESMUE that since the pistol is basically flawless that it's a commercially imported P7 and not a german police PSP trade-in. Is this a sound presumption?

Thank you.

-J-

 

[Substance-P]

I've seen some of the imports come in in Grade A shape that looked new. I bought a couple of the grade Bs and one looked really good (only the faintest of wear to muzzle), so it could be one of the newer imports.

According to wikipedia (I know, if its on wikipedia than it has to be true) "As a result of a competitive bid the German police forces selected three different pistols into service: the Swiss SIG-Sauer P225 (designated the P6) and two German designs – the P7 (officially called the PSP) and the Walther P5."

The P7 (with no other distinction afterwards) is a PSP. The single stack, heel release, and lack of a heat shield are what typifies the P7 (PSP). The lack of heat shield is the only think I don't like about my PSPs...if you are putting a lot of round down them at a range session, the barrel heats up fast (similar to an AK). Not a big deal for a carry gun, but if you are planning on putting 3-5 magazines through them fast, be careful when touching the barrel.

Hope this helps, don't know for certain on the distinctions. Good luck

 

[Substance-P]

Double post, please delete

 

[shooter521]

Is there any easy way to tell these pistols apart?

PSP:

P7:

Just looking at the pics, the shape of the trigger guard, the length/curvature of the trigger and the depth of the cocking lever are pretty obvious differences. From what I've read, the surplus guns flooding the market now (CDNN, SOG, etc) are actually P7s rather than PSPs; a lot of folks use the two terms interchangeably, but they're really different guns (and both are distinct from the "Americanized" P7M8).

Per HKPro.com:
The PSP was produced from May of 1976 through 1978. Only 239 total models were manufactured. The serial numbers for the PSP go from 001-239, then 240-250 are for the PSP/P7, and after 251 starts the P7 series.

Here's a good close-up of a commercial P7:

 

[Substance-P]

PSP:

P7:

P7M8:

My two PSPs (police trade ins) look nothing like the picture of PSPs, but exactly like the picture of the P7

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

I'm so freaking confused... lol

 

[Substance-P]

PSP:

P7:

Just looking at the pics, the shape of the trigger guard, the length/curvature of the trigger and the depth of the cocking lever are pretty obvious differences. From what I've read, the surplus guns flooding the market now (CDNN, SOG, etc) are actually P7s rather than PSPs; a lot of folks use the two terms interchangeably, but they're really different guns (and both are distinct from the "Americanized" P7M8).

Here's a good close-up of a commercial P7:

So, other than a few cosmetic differences, there aren't differences between the P7 and the P7 PSP correct? The PSP is just the version of the P7 that was adopted by the German Police and branded as such with different grips, and markings on the slide.

I think you are right about people misusing the terms (or at least being confused by them), including distributors and maybe HK themselves. As you will see in the pics below. The ad from CDNN (that has been running for months uncorrected) has these listed as P7PSPs and the additional magazines I purchased for them from HK are listed as PSP magazines.

Indyguy, I'm with you, it is confusing. But either way you slice it, shooter is right the non Ameicanized P7s (PSP or not) are different from the P7M8. And for what its worth, I don't know of a more accurate and easy to carry 9mm than the p7

Update: according to the hkp7.com "[FONT=Arial,Helvetica] After the P7M8 came along, the earlier P7 was referred to as a PSP to keep things straight. Was any gun ever marked both P7and PSP?. I don't know for sure, but I don't think so." So, the P7 is a PSP. It was only marked as a PSP after the P7M8 was introduced, before that, they were just called P7s (like mine). They were likely never marketed as both a P7 (plain, no distinction) and a P7PSPs but are now referred to as PSPs (since their are now other models to keep straight).
[/FONT]

 

[shooter521]

So, other than a few cosmetic differences, there aren't differences between the P7 and the P7 PSP correct? The PSP is just the version of the P7 that was adopted by the German Police and branded as such with different grips, and markings on the slide.

That's pretty much what I have gathered from guys who know WAY more about the subject than I do. There were only 239 "real" PSPs made; these were the "prototype" model for the "P7" which, with some slight modifications, was adopted into police and military service. In the US, the "PSP" name has become kind of genericized (much like we call any clear tape "Scotch tape" or any adhesive bandage a "Band-Aid"), and is often used to distinguish the P7 from the P7M8. To further confuse matters, in 1997, HK imported a final run of heel-release P7s, which were marked "P7" on the grip and "PSP" on the slide.

I think you are right about people misusing the terms (or at least being confused by them), including distributors

Absolutely! CDNN is hardly the pinnacle of correctness when it comes to minutae like this. After all, in the same flyer you posted, they're advertising "GLOCK 23SF" magazines, meaning they have the cutout for the ambidextrous mag catch. Problem is, the "SF" designation stands for "Short Frame" and has nothing to do with the magazine (there's no such model as a G23SF, and you can order a G21SF with the regular mag catch if you want). Basically, they're just making sh*t up in order to hype their product, the same way they run those screaming "BANNED" or "LAST ONES" or "NO MORE, EVER!" headlines in every ad.

All this HK crap has given me a headache, and I don't even like the damn things to begin with! Now, ask me a question about AK-74 magazines, and I'll gladly kill an afternoon boring you to death with nitpicky technical details you don't care about...

 

[Substance-P]

That's pretty much what I have gathered from guys who know WAY more about the subject than I do. There were only 239 "real" PSPs made; these were the "prototype" model for the "P7" which, with some slight modifications, was adopted into police and military service. In the US, the "PSP" name has become kind of genericized (much like we call any clear tape "Scotch tape" or any adhesive bandage a "Band-Aid"), and is often used to distinguish the P7 from the P7M8. To further confuse matters, in 1997, HK imported a final run of heel-release P7s, which were marked "P7" on the grip and "PSP" on the slide.



Absolutely! CDNN is hardly the pinnacle of correctness when it comes to minutae like this. After all, in the same flyer you posted, they're advertising "GLOCK 23SF" magazines, meaning they have the cutout for the ambidextrous mag catch. Problem is, the "SF" designation stands for "Short Frame" and has nothing to do with the magazine (there's no such model as a G23SF, and you can order a G21SF with the regular mag catch if you want). Basically, they're just making sh*t up in order to hype their product, the same way they run those screaming "BANNED" or "LAST ONES" or "NO MORE, EVER!" headlines in every ad.

All this HK crap has given me a headache, and I don't even like the damn things to begin with! Now, ask me a question about AK-74 magazines, and I'll gladly kill an afternoon boring you to death with nitpicky technical details you don't care about...

Too true, I even started reading threads before I had any coffee this morning, a sure way for a complicated one like this to give a headache.

So, Indyguy, I guess you will be getting essentially the same thing with a P7 (plain) or PSP. Also, just my , the P7 series will do nothing but increase in value. With the recent flooding of about all that was left, prices are as depressed as they are going to be; however, these guns will do nothing but go up from here.

 

[shooter521]

With the recent flooding of about all that was left, prices are as depressed as they are going to be; however, these guns will do nothing but go up from here.

Yep. Folks in the know say there's another batch of ex-German P7s due to show up in 2Q09 that will be in pretty much like-new condition (some featuring the Saxony crest on the slide) and priced accordingly, then a small batch of P7M8s after that, but nothing in the numbers or at the price point we're seeing now.

We have a saying in the AK community - "these are the good old days." Basically, get what you want now or kick yourself later. That goes double for HK stuff, which tends to be harder to get and fetches higher prices across the boards.

 

[Substance-P]

Yep. Folks in the know say there's another batch of ex-German P7s due to show up in 2Q09 that will be in pretty much like-new condition (some featuring the Saxony crest on the slide) and priced accordingly, then a small batch of P7M8s after that, but nothing in the numbers or at the price point we're seeing now.

We have a saying in the AK community - "these are the good old days." Basically, get what you want now or kick yourself later. That goes double for HK stuff, which tends to be harder to get and fetches higher prices across the boards.

I think that mentality, however accurate, is going to get me in trouble one of these days...it's responsible for all my black rifles, AKs, and now waay more Sagia 12s than I will ever need...but hey, better to have them and not need them than to want/need them and not be able to get them...

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Dang...

Just called. That PSP that I was hankering over is gone. Replaced (magically...) by one in slightly worse condition. Probably one of those trade-ins. *sigh*

I still may go look at it after work; wifey says "if you want it go ahead and get it", even though I haven't sold my EMP yet.

We'll see...

And thanks, folks, for helping me out on the confusion issue.

-J-

 

[Rookie]

PSP - mag release is located at the bottom of the gun. Shorter trigger guard.

P7M8 - mag release is located near the trigger. Longer trigger guard.

 

[browndog2]

Rookie is correct
The easiest way to tell is the magazine release.
The P7M8 is ambidextrious and up near the triggerguard.

If you are able to adjust to the unusual moa they are excellent shooters.
Careful the triggers are usually very light.
ANd with the fixed barrel, accuracy is good even at longer distances.

Beware the magazines are not interchangeable.

Mine is a factory refurbished P7M8 with the purplish slide and mill marks where the German LE stamps were. These were dumped on the american market around 2000 and sold for $700-$800.

The PSPs recently available have a european magazine release so magazine changes might be slightly slower than with a P7M8.

Note: When shooting at the range, the frame gets very hot.
If you shoot a few and let it sit for a while (possibly shooting a different firearm for a while) the heat is not a problem. If you routinly fire 100 rounds as fast a possible, you may have issues with the firearm.
I shot mine in IDPA and USPSA matches but the limited magazine capacity (along with my bad shooting) was a bit of a handicap. But it was fun anyway.

I recommend shooting one first to see if you can adjust to the ususual operation. I had no trouble with it, but some folks just do not like it. The squeeze cocker requires a decent squeeze to engage, but a normal grip keeps it engaged.