The Vatican supports complete civilian disarmament

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    rambone

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    The Vatican is an independent nation with a lot of political influence -- I hope this is an acceptable political topic. Documents and statements going back for a decade or more have been making their position on gun control clear. They think only the government should be armed.
    Gun control: Church firmly, quietly opposes firearms for civilians

    "However, we believe that in the long run and with few exceptions -- i.e. police officers, military use -- handguns should be eliminated from our society."

    The Vatican has adopted the same agenda as the U.N. and the globalists pushing for eliminating freedom around the world.
     

    Wabatuckian

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    Yeah, it's been going on for the past 50 years.

    As a former Catholic, I looked into the Church's stance on a lot of things... and the gun control issue is one of the major reasons I'm "former".

    Josh
     
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    I am not Catholic - nor have I ever been. That said, I know some cool people who are - and I wouldn't throw this in their face or anything. The fact is, I personally disagree with the approach/position that the Vatican is taking on this issue. Period. No name calling. No dragging other issues that I may disagree with the Vatican on. I have too much respect for my friends who are Catholic for that.

    This puts them in an awkward position. I can see that. That's for them to work through in the privacy of their own home, when and how they choose. They don't need nor want (I suspect) any help from me in that department.

    That's what I would want were I in their shoes... Whether we disagree or not, I doubt that if we were on the other side of this coin we wouldn't want someone getting in our face about it. Do unto others as we would have, and all...

    Just my two centavos...
     
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    I don't see the issue with this. It's not like the Vatican has anything to do with anything at all. The UN hates the idea or religion so I fail to see how the 2 could ever be connected
     

    Wabatuckian

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    It was. But some people aren't intelligent enough to realize it and insist on pushing it in another direction. I don't see it being open long.

    I'm Catholic. The Vatican and I don't see eye to eye on several issues...including this one.

    Probably several of the same for which I originally left. I just couldn't go any longer without feeling like a hypocrite.

    On the positive side, I had every priest I asked (three have been through there) that self-defense is a Biblically supported right, as long as you do not strike to intentionally kill. If death comes as an unintentional result of self-defense, you are blameless.

    In other words, the OFFICIAL stance, as in doctrine, is "shoot to stop."

    The current officials are not reflecting what the Catechism teaches on this, and man, that's the sin they're committing.

    Josh
     

    MinuteMan47

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    ...every priest I asked (three have been through there) that self-defense is a Biblically supported right, as long as you do not strike to intentionally kill. If death comes as an unintentional result of self-defense, you are blameless.

    In other words, the OFFICIAL stance, as in doctrine, is "shoot to stop."

    The current officials are not reflecting what the Catechism teaches on this, and man, that's the sin they're committing.

    Josh


    Yes. But, according to the article their stance is that since the nation has an army, police force, and court system then the citizen no longer needs to bear arms. They say it would "promote a lawless street justice".
     

    ThrottleJockey

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    I was raised catholic. I was raised with guns. When my parents divorced my ties with the catholic church were severed. My ties with guns were not. As I grew up I learned a lot about guns and I learned a lot about religion. I learned that a lot of different companies manufactured 1911s. I learned that the catholic church and king james alone decided which books (stories) could be included in the bible. No one power had total control over the 1911, one power had control over what was in "the bible" and I emphasize the word power. I learned that all 1911s were basically true to John Brownings design while the catholic church was not true to god but worshiped a mere human ("hail mary mother of god...") contrary to the teachings of the bible they controlled. I learned that a lot of people made money from the 1911 but only the catholic church made money from their made up version of religion. The catholic church has always been about control and power and money or they would have included the entire story in their bible and not just the parts that promoted their agenda of money and power. In todays world with the agenda of globalism and control it does NOT surprise me that the catholic church wants in on it. A populace armed is a populace that cannot be controlled with military force.

    I hope this made sense, I tried my best to explain my views of the catholic "church" while staying on track and keeping it about gun control and why I believe they are against the right of the people to keep and bear arms. If I'm off the mark mods, please delete this post, if anyone wants to neg me no biggie I'll get it all back but this is how I feel. The gun manufacturers want to sell guns, the catholic church wants to sell babies....I can't make my own guns but did just fine with making my own babies, I am a Christian and my faith is in Jesus Christ not an "infallible" human being (lol right) when my time is up. Until my time is up I will rely upon my guns for the safety and security of my family and myself.
     

    MinuteMan47

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    I don't see the issue with this. It's not like the Vatican has anything to do with anything at all. The UN hates the idea or religion so I fail to see how the 2 could ever be connected


    Like the OP states, the Vatican is an independent NATION. They aren't an official member of the UN...........yet.



    EDIT: Actually, it seems the Vatican is the ONLY independent state that hasn't joined the UN (as a full member). They have the official status of "permanent observer" with the UN, and can petition to become a full member at any time. I believe under their current status they can put in their :twocents: , they just can't vote.


    United Nations General Assembly observers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
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    melensdad

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    I'm a Catholic. Been one for 50 years. While the Vatican may support disarming me and others, it is not a doctrine of the faith and does not have to be followed by members of the Church. I don't and won't follow this and have always disagreed with it. It strikes me as very odd that the Church supports self-defense and even says that self-defense, with a gun, is legitimate but also opposes most gun possession.
     

    lovemachine

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    I'm Catholic. I attend Mass regularly. I was an altar boy for years. I even trained altar boys in the past. I even wanted to become a priest when I was in high school! I'm actually proud to be a Catholic. Not wanting to get into religion here, since it's againt the rules, but I will say that I'm offended by some of the above comments. A cult? Child Molesting? That pisses me off.

    But anyway, I won't go in to it. I will say this. I have researched this very topic. Here's what I've found. The pope, the vatican, the church, are all for self defense. But not murder. You should do anything possible, and legal, to protect yourself and your family. It says that very clearly in the Catechism. ("law book" of the catholic church)
    And from other readings, you get different meanings on what the church says about gun control. I haven't read anything that says one way or the other.

    I don't agree with EVERYTHING the Church believes. But I agree with most. If they ARE for gun control, well, that's just one more thing I don't agree with. And that's not going to stop me from being a proud Catholic.
     

    JoshuaW

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    I dont think this surprises everyone. They are a very "politically correct" organization (because lets face it, they are a nation, but more so they are the leaders in a global religion). Also, any organization with that much influence and power tends to favor gun control.
     

    88GT

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    The scary thing is that there are some hold the position of the Church as gospel (pardon the horrible pun). And now we'll have a group of people who otherwise would have no opinion on the matter--or might even disagree if not for the power of a Church opinion behind it--wanting to do something because the guy in the pointy hat says so (what's the name of head piece the pope wears?). I wish the Church--and all the Christian denoms for that matter--would stick to issue of salvations and doctrine and leave the secular issues alone.

    I was raised catholic. I was raised with guns. When my parents divorced my ties with the catholic church were severed. My ties with guns were not. As I grew up I learned a lot about guns and I learned a lot about religion. I learned that a lot of different companies manufactured 1911s. I learned that the catholic church and king james alone decided which books (stories) could be included in the bible. No one power had total control over the 1911, one power had control over what was in "the bible" and I emphasize the word power. I learned that all 1911s were basically true to John Brownings design while the catholic church was not true to god but worshiped a mere human ("hail mary mother of god...") contrary to the teachings of the bible they controlled. I learned that a lot of people made money from the 1911 but only the catholic church made money from their made up version of religion. The catholic church has always been about control and power and money or they would have included the entire story in their bible and not just the parts that promoted their agenda of money and power. In todays world with the agenda of globalism and control it does NOT surprise me that the catholic church wants in on it. A populace armed is a populace that cannot be controlled with military force.

    You're several hundred years too late on that one. King Jimmy simply retranslated what already existed, mostly in the Latin Vulgate, IIRC. And back when they were deciding what went in and what didn't, the forerunner of today's modern Catholic Church was pretty much all that existed. It's not like they muscled out the competition. Today's differences are the result of schisms that took place later. (Though that's not to say there weren't disagreements from the get-go a la Paul and his admonitions to the various groups he addressed in his epistles.)
     

    edporch

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    I say to any other hypocrites who say I'm supposed to be disarmed while they still get to keep their own guns and armed guards.

    You do it FIRST and show me how well your theory works.

    The Vatican should send their guards home and show us how it works.

    Very few things bug me more than hypocrisy.
     

    goinggreyfast

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    It's really funny how so many folk in this world think that The Vatican speaks for "The Church" when in fact, they really do not. I am an avid Believer in Jesus Christ and have a personal relationship with Him. I have many very good friends who are Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, Pentecostal, the list goes on and on. We have one common bond--Jesus Christ--and that is the bond that ties us together in brotherly love. Just know that Catholicism is not the be all and say all when it comes to "The Church" as the Bible knows "The Church" as "The Body of Christ."

    Enough of the sermon. The Bible is pretty clear on protecting ones family, loved ones, and belongings.

    Luke 11:21 "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are safe.

    When Jesus saved me, he took away my sin, he did not take away my spine. Blessings to you all.
     
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