Why does it seem like LEO's don't know how to use anything but their firearms?

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  • CathyInBlue

    Grandmaster
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    My understanding of undertrained, overadrenalized LEO culture is that they delight in use of batons, OC, and tasers as well. Frankly, if this story were, cop accidentally tasers partner while aiming at growling dog, it would not have even made it to INGO's collective attention. It only did so because the officer used his sidearm. I'd rather limit LEO projectile weapons to only the firearm. They'd have fists, feet, and batons for hand-to-hand, and if they can't close that distance, bring out the guns. In between, they can rely on their human relations skills, which for most involved in abuse of force cases would mean they would first have to be endowed with human relations skills in the first place.

    This is not to say that human relations skills would work against a growling dog, but canine relations skill sets are useful too.

    The idea is not to have the police shoot more people with guns. It's to have the police take more people into custody by talking to them. If ranged force is necessary to take them into custody, then let the gun be the tool of choice.

    This, of course, assumes well-trained cops that aren't of the "I am the law!" and "Respect mah authoritah!" varieties, but this policy would bring those cops to attention, and hence to ground, sooner rather than later.
     

    Sfrandolph

    Shooter
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    2   0   0
    Nov 23, 2012
    868
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    Boone county
    In the past 4-5 years I have seen so many stories about LEOs pulling stupid stunts with their weapons, loosing control and killing unarmed people, gun whipping people that were already under arrest, kicking handcuffed women in the face, and about a dozen other things. What are they doing at the academies, teaching this LEOs how to be goons and total outcasts of society? And the sad part is that at most they get paid administrative leave for their indiscretions. But if a soldier/sailor does anything they are brought up on charges, incarcerated and then dishonorably discharged. Doesn't seem right.
     

    BiscuitNaBasket

    Grandmaster
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    73   1   0
    Dec 27, 2011
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    Greenwood

    Frank_N_Stein

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    79   0   0
    Nov 24, 2008
    10,206
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    Beech Grove, IN
    Cops not shooting animals is not good enough for 10 O'Clock news. Cops shooting anything at all is "news." You won't hear about the cops who rescued a dog from owner abuse without shooting it.

    Also, the officer did not shoot his partner. The round was deflected and hit his partner.

    You and your "facts." Your kind don't belong in this thread.
     

    VUPDblue

    Silencers Have NEVER Been Illegal !
    Rating - 100%
    25   0   1
    Mar 20, 2008
    12,885
    83
    Franklin Township
    My understanding of undertrained, overadrenalized LEO culture is that they delight in use of batons, OC, and tasers as well. Frankly, if this story were, cop accidentally tasers partner while aiming at growling dog, it would not have even made it to INGO's collective attention. It only did so because the officer used his sidearm. I'd rather limit LEO projectile weapons to only the firearm. They'd have fists, feet, and batons for hand-to-hand, and if they can't close that distance, bring out the guns. In between, they can rely on their human relations skills, which for most involved in abuse of force cases would mean they would first have to be endowed with human relations skills in the first place.

    This is not to say that human relations skills would work against a growling dog, but canine relations skill sets are useful too.

    The idea is not to have the police shoot more people with guns. It's to have the police take more people into custody by talking to them. If ranged force is necessary to take them into custody, then let the gun be the tool of choice.

    This, of course, assumes well-trained cops that aren't of the "I am the law!" and "Respect mah authoritah!" varieties, but this policy would bring those cops to attention, and hence to ground, sooner rather than later.


    The above post is quite possible the most uninformed, useless, ridiculous and dangerous proposition I have seen on this subject....ever. :twocents:
     

    Shadow8088

    Expert
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 24, 2012
    972
    28
    i think the greatest thing I can think of that fits into this is the scene in Braveheart where young Wallace is standing at his father's grave and he picks up his uncle's sword. His uncle tells him. "First, learn to use this *taps him on the head* and then I'll teach you to use this. *holds up sword*"

    I don't know about you, but my first reaction when confronted by an animal is NOT to shoot it. Back away, exit its "territory" and get safe, THEN decide what you need to do. If it charges or attacks, defend yourself, but your first instinct when challenged by a growling dog should not be to draw and fire.
     

    VUPDblue

    Silencers Have NEVER Been Illegal !
    Rating - 100%
    25   0   1
    Mar 20, 2008
    12,885
    83
    Franklin Township

    Because less-lethal options like the Taser and OC/CS spray make for fewer injuries to officers AND suspects. When officers have to go hands-on to violent resistors, the odds are high that one or the other is going to sustain injury, and not just a boo-boo. The point of less-lethal is to be able to gain compliance without using force likely to cause injury. If you give officers only the choice of hands/fists/feet or firearms, then injuries and deaths are going to skyrocket. I agree that interpersonal skills are very helpful in talking people down, but some people simply cannot be reasoned with. Example; an officer has someone flee from him when he arrives at a domestic where the female states she has been beaten by the suspect. The officer gives chase and closes the distance, all the while giving commands to the suspect to stop. The suspect doesn't want to go to jail and has just been in a violent encounter...no amount of talking is going to convince him to comply. The officer has no less lethal at all and a fight ensues. The officer has to escalate force until the suspect is under control and one or the other of them gets injured. Studies and facts show that this can often be avoided by deploying less-lethal options. Hell, in my short time in LE I have had people who initially want to fight and then immediately surrender upon my presentation of my Taser. To tell officers that you are taking away very effective tools and that they need to learn to communicate better to solve their problems is just as asinine as Feinstein saying that would-be mass killers will simply lay down their arms when they find that their potential victims are unarmed because "that's just human nature".
     
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