Does this count as having a gun on school property?

[CampingJosh]

I live and work at a camp. Occasionally we have groups of students from local schools who use the camp. Definitely a school function.

So what is the law? Indiana says that any property in use by a school counts as a school. SCOTUS says I can have guns at my home. Does it still count as my home when the schools are renting the property?

For clarity, the house is not a separate, adjacent lot. It's in roughly the middle of the camp, and it's all one address.

Is my only safe option to lock all of my guns in a car while schools use the camp?

 

[T.Lex]

I'll go out on a limb and suggest that you find an attorney in your county with a good relationship with the prosecutor in your county and the 2 of them can perhaps have a hypothetical conversation about how something like that would work out.

Or you can publicly post on a internet gun forum for random opinions and advice from strangers. That works, too.

The harsh answer is that what you describe puts a few different laws against each other, making it difficult to predict the result.

 

[MarkC]

Take a look at the statute, linked here. In 2014 the General Assembly removed references to property leased for school functions, specifically to address the issues you bring up.

Edited to add: This is, of course, depending on who owns the camp. I was making the assumption that the camp property was not school owned.

 

[Tactically Fat]

Does your employer allow it as a condition of your employment? (The carrying of a firearm on your person while you work?)

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Knowing absolutely nothing about the law, and having no information to base this opinion on: No, it doesn't (shouldn't) count because that would be absurd.

Consider this my tagging the thread until someone who has a real answer comes along.

 

[JettaKnight]

School functions != school property


The roaming school zone was repealed. As you can see in the code (linked above), it only references school property and school buses. Since the district doesn't own your property, you're GTG.

 

[SSGSAD]

Guy Relford, will have an answer for you .....

93.1 FM, Sat., 5 pm - 7 pm .....

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Occasionally we have groups of students from local schools who use the camp. Definitely a school function.

Definitely who cares.

Indiana says that any property in use by a school counts as a school.

Is this something you are being told, or are you looking at an old statute?

Can you tell us who owns the property? School corporation? The county? Private individual? LLC/LLP/inter alia.

 

[CampingJosh]

Definitely who cares.

I just meant to clarify that these are actual school functions, not just groups of students who are doing things unrelated to the school. When payment is due, the check comes from the school corporation.

Is this something you are being told, or are you looking at an old statute?

Must have been the old statute! That takes pretty well takes care of it.

Can you tell us who owns the property? School corporation? The county? Private individual? LLC/LLP/inter alia.

The camp is a non-profit corporation, and the corporation owns the property. The corporation expects that I have guns on the property, going so far as to bring it up during the interview process.

 

[CampingJosh]

I'll go out on a limb and suggest that you find an attorney in your county with a good relationship with the prosecutor in your county and the 2 of them can perhaps have a hypothetical conversation about how something like that would work out.

Or you can publicly post on a internet gun forum for random opinions and advice from strangers. That works, too.

The harsh answer is that what you describe puts a few different laws against each other, making it difficult to predict the result.

First step, not only step. Although, as it turns out, I was misunderstanding the current law, and so this is probably the only step.

Does your employer allow it as a condition of your employment? (The carrying of a firearm on your person while you work?)

It is known to the employer that firearms are present at the camp.

School functions != school property

This, and the others who posted the link to the IC, answers my question. Thanks, everyone.

 

[Tactically Fat]

So, if it's a condition of your employment at said non-profit... And you are a bona-fide employee of said non-profit...

It wouldn't matter if there are school functions there or not.

That's without the "roving school zones"...that aren't a thing any more.

It'd be like having an armed security guard at a bank...and having a school field trip come to the bank. It's suddenly not illegal for the security guard to be there.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I live and work at a camp. Occasionally we have groups of students from local schools who use the camp. Definitely a school function.

So what is the law? Indiana says that any property in use by a school counts as a school. SCOTUS says I can have guns at my home. Does it still count as my home when the schools are renting the property?

For clarity, the house is not a separate, adjacent lot. It's in roughly the middle of the camp, and it's all one address.

Is my only safe option to lock all of my guns in a car while schools use the camp?

IANAL/TINLA
Is the school renting your house? If so, maybe. If they are renting halls/other buildings and not your home specifically you are probably good to go.

School functions != school property

The roaming school zone was repealed. As you can see in the code (linked above), it only references school property and school buses. Since the district doesn't own your property, you're GTG.

Yes school functions don't equal school property. They did repeal that part of the IC, but the definition of school property includes own or rent.

IC 35-31.5-2-285
"School property"
Sec. 285. "School property" means the following:
(1) A building or other structure owned or rented by:
(A) a school corporation;
(B) an entity that is required to be licensed under IC 12-17.2
or IC 31-27;
(C) a private school that is not supported and maintained by
funds realized from the imposition of a tax on property,
income, or sales; or
(D) a federal, state, local, or nonprofit program or service
operated to serve, assist, or otherwise benefit children who
are at least three (3) years of age and not yet enrolled in
kindergarten, including the following:
(i) A Head Start program under 42 U.S.C. 9831 et seq.
(ii) A special education preschool program.
(iii) A developmental child care program for preschool
children.
(2) The grounds adjacent to and owned or rented in common
with a building or other structure described in subdivision (1).

So, if it's a condition of your employment at said non-profit... And you are a bona-fide employee of said non-profit...

It wouldn't matter if there are school functions there or not.

That's without the "roving school zones"...that aren't a thing any more.

It'd be like having an armed security guard at a bank...and having a school field trip come to the bank. It's suddenly not illegal for the security guard to be there.

I'll agree that it wouldn't matter if there are school functions there or not, but if they rent the property it becomes school property. So unless the school rented the bank, it wouldn't be illegal for the security guard to carry. A school takes a field trip to a zoo, probably not school property, unless they rent the entire zoo for their use.

 

[jamil]

I'll go out on a limb and suggest that you find an attorney in your county with a good relationship with the prosecutor in your county and the 2 of them can perhaps have a hypothetical conversation about how something like that would work out.

Or you can publicly post on a internet gun forum for random opinions and advice from strangers. That works, too.

The harsh answer is that what you describe puts a few different laws against each other, making it difficult to predict the result.

Knowing absolutely nothing about the law, and having no information to base this opinion on: No, it doesn't (shouldn't) count because that would be absurd.

Consider this my tagging the thread until someone who has a real answer comes along.

Well played.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

The camp is a non-profit corporation, and the corporation owns the property. The corporation expects that I have guns on the property, going so far as to bring it up during the interview process.

Non-profit corporation that is NOT a school, right?

Does a school/school corporation pay rent on the camp?

 

[CampingJosh]

Non-profit corporation that is NOT a school, right?

Does a school/school corporation pay rent on the camp?

The non-profit is NOT a school.

The school pays for food, not properly rent (no lease agreement signed, which we do use with other groups). We haven't yet had a school rent the property.

We have had another non-school group rent the camp and then bring the high school choir to sing during their meal. I don't know what the arrangement is between the two, but if money is flowing, it's surely going to the school.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

The non-profit is NOT a school.

The school pays for food, not properly rent (no lease agreement signed, which we do use with other groups). We haven't yet had a school rent the property.

We have had another non-school group rent the camp and then bring the high school choir to sing during their meal. I don't know what the arrangement is between the two, but if money is flowing, it's surely going to the school.

Once again IANAL/TINLA.
If the school isn't renting the property, you are good to go. Even if the group that rents the property brings in a school group. The IC states it's school property if a school owns or rents it. Purchasing food or incidentals isn't rent. Being paid by another to perform also isn't rent.

 

[jedi]

So what occurs if a school does rent the entire property.
OP is still an employee of that property and is allowed to carry. So which wins out?

 

[Timjoebillybob]

So what occurs if a school does rent the entire property.
OP is still an employee of that property and is allowed to carry. So which wins out?

Once again just to make sure IANAL/TINLA.
School. Not very long ago (post school property change) a INGO member was asking about rental property they owned, that was rented by a preschool. The consensus (by actual attorneys iirc), was if he didn't have their permission it was a no go. I'd look it up but INGO search sucks (yes I know how to google search ingo) and I'm lasy. The question was asked iirc because of the change, it removed property owners/those with permission from such from the exemption, as such where he was previously legal he no longer was such.