SB 20 - Deer Hunting ... say "RIFLE" rules clarification(s)

[brotherbill3]

SB 20 has been posted

Since it is firearms related (in my words "AKA RIFLE RULES" ) ... I'm starting this here ... (feel free to move to Great Outdoors if Mod's feel more appropriate spot) ...

The "EDITS" from last season got a lot of blame for stuff that (in my review) they didn't cause ... ... anyway ...
... they slipped thru without my commenting because they were only filed under TGO area and not under this main folder. ...


SB 20 "Deer Hunting" ...

Link: https://iga.in.gov/legislative/2018/bills/senate/20

DIGEST:

Deer hunting. Specifies the following concerning the statute allowing the use of certain rifle and cartridge combinations to hunt deer on privately owned land: (1) That the statute does not apply to the use of a rifle firing a handgun cartridge to hunt deer. (2) That the statute may not be construed to affect the administrative rule regulating the use of a rifle firing a handgun cartridge to hunt deer by removing the legal authority to hunt deer on publicly owned land using a rifle firing a handgun cartridge. (3) That the statute may not be construed to supersede the authority of the natural resources commission to regulate the use of rifles firing handgun cartridges to hunt deer. (4) That the statute may not be construed to diminish in any way the legal authority existing on January 1, 2017, to hunt deer using equipment described in the rule.

 

[snapping turtle]

Appears almost a vague in writing as the older rules. (I am sure they will look at this before it proceeds)
I have pistols that shoot rifle rounds I have rifles that shoot pistol rounds.
“Just the facts mam” .

I don’t Speak lawyer so i shall wait.

 

[BiscuitsandGravy]

Is that word salad?

 

[Mgderf]

Yep, clear as mud.
I just got a Henry lever gun in .327fed/mag.
Under the new rules, being a pistol round, this should be legal on public land, but it does not meet the requirements set forth by the existing rules for pistol caliber rifles.

Boy oh boy am I glad I hunt private property.
Last year I used a .30-30.
This year I used a .35 Remington.
Next year might well the that .327fed/mag.

 

[brotherbill3]

FYI ...

SB 20 is listed for State Senate Judiciary Comm. Hearing today at 10 - Room 130.

 

[brotherbill3]

FYI / Update - The Senate Judiciary Committee Passed this (possibly with an amendment) - today 9 for 1 against.

 

[brotherbill3]

UPDATE:

This passed the senate (figured it would) 47 Y - 2 N and has been referred to the house.

Jim Lucas is the sponsor in the House.

Latest Version:

https://iga.in.gov/legislative/2018/bills/senate/20#document-a70fb573

note to me in a quick check - it still reads like a jigsaw puzzle put in a blender

 

[brotherbill3]

DERP - COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN FAIL

It may be too late too, but I just saw it and I can't believe the Agenda for the Natural Resoures Committee this Wednesday ...

1 Bill - The REDICULOUS "STATE INSECT" - is more important than fixing the Deer Hunting Rules? WTF ... ?????

Firing off this letter (or one very close) - and calling again tomorrow -

Sorry - been a busy busy few days.

Chairman Eberhart,


I saw today that you scheduled a hearing for only 1 bill for the last Natural Resources Committee hearing this Wednesday 2-21-2018. I am highly disappointed that SB 20 (Deer Hunting) was NOT scheduled. This bill, while it continues to weave the cob web of rules for what rifles are allowed on public and private land, deserves a hearing and a chance to resolve the mess that was created by the rule changes and the somewhat random "re-interpretation" of these rules by the state Department of Natural Resources (DNR) last year.


While the revisions in the Spring of 2017, did not alter the language of the locations where "high power" deer rifles versus "pistol caliber" deer rifles were allowed, the DNR reinterpreted their position and a special order was required from Governor Holcum to sort out the debacle and confusion. I was hopeful, along with many hunters in the Hoosier State, that SB 20 would clearly protect the right to use the "pistol caliber" firearms again on Public Land, as has been the case for about the last 6 to 10 hunting season. (Sadly I do not recall when this change was first allowed by the DNR, for which I apologize.) While I applaud the expansion of allowing normal "Deer Calibers" (or "High Power") rifle and cartridge combinations, the IGA created this mess 2 sessions ago when you jumped the gun (for a good play on words) and forced the matter with a mediocre (at best) bill. I do support the use of all ethical "Deer Calibers".


PLEASE - I urge in the STRONGEST of terms - do not let this measure rest and die this session; SB 20 must be heard or yet again another uproar will ensue; and requiring special effort from the Governor that Should not be required. Please revise and update the agenda to include SB 20 for the upcoming hearing.


Thank you.
Sincerely,


BB3
A Concerned Hunter and Citizen.
Information Analyst, Indiana Moms Against Gun Control

 

[brotherbill3]

ALSO - calling tomorrow

800-382-9841

 

[dugsagun]

Wow, that is crazy! Sometimes i take a step back and look at indiana's dnr rules and compare them to arkansas (family vacation during deer season every year , heh) and i just wonder what moron is writing the book? Can our politicians possibly do a more assbackwards roundabout way to maybe try and clear something this important up? Unbelievable

 

[Old Dog]

I suspect a lot of anti rifle supporters work for IDNR, that, coupled with the pressure from anti hunting groups has a bunch of folks lolly-gagging and mincing words to create confusion and misunderstanding in an effort to keep blame away from themselves. In other words... typical Indiana politics. The solution is simple, just that no-one wants to really solve the problem.

 

[snapping turtle]

I remember watching the original rule change at the DNR closely.

It seemed great when first brought up. The rifles they were thinking of were about max 200 yard rifles like what a good slug gun could do. If the range was similar then the danger was about equal. Sounds great no shoulder buster shotgun better accuracy (well I have seen some great shooting slug guns) lighter guns and friendly to youngster and ladies without that slug gun kick.
Rounds were going to be by caliber 357 mag 41 mag 44 mag 45 long colt and 454 cas period.

Then someone in the DNR had a 450 bushmaster AR and wanted 450 bushmaster included. So they came up with cartridge min max and cal. to include and satisfy the 450 guy and wildcat cartridges or odd balls (357 max was used as a example since it met the guidelines yet was not listed as a legal rifle)

Yet they left out the 30-30 35 rem 32 special ect that lots of people had in a closet that in effect are just what they wanted a 200 yard ish deer gun. This was to spur the demand in PCR rifles and stimulate the gun economy which does help fund the DNR in a way. I saw guys spend 1k-2k on builds for 35 Indiana and 35 rem short ect. A few of these stretched out the range to about 500 yards. This is what we do. Give us a rule we will stretch what we can with the rule given. Like a nascar team.

Personally (being king of Indiana) i would have done 357 mag 44 mag 45 long colt first year.
To hunt my deer the next year legally (I am the king after all) I would have held a series of town halls asking what cartridges should be added. I would have stated that I did not want those long rangers yet to limit it a bit. Stay safe and we will see about adding those longer range rifles in years to come.

Every year two new calibers would be added.
Plus if safety incidents or accidental shootings above the average happened then a year or two for new rounds would have been stopped.
if safety incidents or accidental shootings below the average happened then three new rounds would be added per year.
If the current amount of hunters in the field reached 50 percent with a hunter safety course then a new round would also be added to the list each year.
Buy a tag to become a voter. Heck tag a deer get a second vote after the tag was checked in. Always one choice would be to leave the rounds as they were.

This would have given a safety accountability to hunters. And a big stick to unsafe actions. A nice way to be in touch with the Hunting public. A way to expand the rifles used every year and a boost Sale of rifles each year. I can see the “team 30/30” or team “257 Roberts” t-shirts in the meeting in my mind right now. As king of course I could print up shirts for the team 30/30

Gone would be the PCR rifle class. Just these calibers are legal as listed in the hunter guide . I guess being the king I would have made a few wildcatters a bit mad. Hey I am the king I don’t Need votes anyway. INGO of course would hate the KING but he is used to that.

 

[Mgderf]

DERP - COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN FAIL

It may be too late too, but I just saw it and I can't believe the Agenda for the Natural Resoures Committee this Wednesday ...

1 Bill - The REDICULOUS "STATE INSECT" - is more important than fixing the Deer Hunting Rules? WTF ... ?????


BB3
A Concerned Hunter and Citizen.
Information Analyst, Indiana Moms Against Gun Control

But Bill," it's for the children!"
That bill was some little pet project of a West Lafayette school teacher to have her kids petition the state to name the firefly the state insect. This was decided because they learned Indiana had no official state insect.

So, it was a teaching experience for the children. A chance for them to learn how government works.
And you want to rob them of their opportunity, just so you can have "clarity".

I am so sick and tired of this political correctness crap.
Feel-good legislation is killing our society.

 

[brotherbill3]

But Bill," it's for the children!"
That bill was some little pet project of a West Lafayette school teacher to have her kids petition the state to name the firefly the state insect. This was decided because they learned Indiana had no official state insect.

So, it was a teaching experience for the children. A chance for them to learn how government works.
And you want to rob them of their opportunity, just so you can have "clarity".

I am so sick and tired of this political correctness crap.
Feel-good legislation is killing our society.

So Senator Sandlin was explaining to me yesterday while we waited for SB 33 / House Pub Policy Committee.
UGH.
Perhaps we should teach them the limits and operation of the constitution first.
and then how $$$$ works and real costs. but Good on a few of them. LOL.

 

[Mgderf]

So Senator Sandlin was explaining to me yesterday while we waited for SB 33 / House Pub Policy Committee.
UGH.
Perhaps we should teach them the limits and operation of the constitution first.
and then how $$$$ works and real costs. but Good on a few of them. LOL.

I agree completely.
The kids would have gotten a much better idea how things work in the real world if their pet bill had been ignored for a couple of sessions.
That way, they could not only learn about the legislative process, they might also learn the value of patience, and persistence.

It's all about instant gratification these days.

 

[brotherbill3]

WELL ...

The annoyance of "sneaking stuff" into bills - and thanks to the NRA support for lawful uses of guns - i.e. HUNTING -
I just got this in an e-mail.

On February 26th, the Indiana state Senate passed House Bill 1292 by a unanimous vote. HB 1292 will now make its way to Governor Eric Holcomb’s desk to be signed into law.


House Bill 1292, authored by Representative Sean Eberhart (R-57), will ensure that rifle hunting with pistol caliber cartridges is protected throughout Indiana. This bill safeguards previously established hunting opportunities that many Hoosiers have enjoyed during past hunting seasons. These expanded opportunities will enhance hunter retention and recruitment efforts across the state.

HB 1292 (as AMENDED in the House Nat Resources Committee Jan 29 ) - which I was not or alerted to this = seems to have "FIXED" this issue.

Here is the link... it is simpler than other solutions I saw. (so that is good)
House Bill 1292 - Department of natural resources - Indiana General Assembly, 2018 Session

 

[Dead Duck]

So can I use my M2a1 Howitzer for deer hunting yet?