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  1. #1461
    KLB
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kdf101 View Post
    I am NOT advocating for universal background checks, but I disagree that it would mean having to create a gun registry. I think they will push for one, but it doesnt have to create one. People can still lie about having a gun for years even if registration is required at the time of the sell. I think that their end goal is a registry and probably a ban of some sort though.
    Registration would have to be required period, not at the time of sale. Then you would be unable to transfer a gun not registered after the registry is closed.

    As GP said, without the registry there is no way to enforce UBCs. They have been tried and failed in many places in the past, including here in Indiana.
    They shouldn't just drop a hellfire missile on your café experience...Rand Paul

  2. #1462
    Le mot juste 2A_Tom's Avatar

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  3. #1463
    KG1
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    Biden penned an op-ed in the NYT basically saying that if he’s elected POTUS he will push for a re-enactment of the “assault weapon” and hi-cap magazine ban without any sunset.

    Not only that he will push to make it harder for manufacturers to design modifications that would circumvent the ban.

    He will also push for a UBC, gun buybacks and even a revival of “smart” gun technology.

    That’s quite the list there.

  4. #1464
    Grandmaster jamil's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by GPIA7R View Post
    "Universal background checks" = Federal gun registration
    "Universal background checks" = Federal gun registration
    "Universal background checks" = Federal gun registration
    "Universal background checks" = Federal gun registration
    "Universal background checks" = Federal gun registration
    "Universal background checks" = Federal gun registration


    Really shouldn't take this lightly. This, alone, would make Trump the worst 2A President in recent history... if passed.

    Here's hoping it doesn't get anywhere.... Or that he knows what he's doing and doesn't plan on passing it (even though he sure is talking it up).

    Registration leads to...
    People insisted, and some still insist, that he knew what he was doing with the bumpfire stocks. So I'm not putting much faith in Trump's knowing what he's doing saving the 2A. Rather, I kinda suspect he knows what he's doing and that he's not a lot more 2A friendly than your average Fudd.
    I have spoken.

  5. #1465
    Grandmaster jamil's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by GPIA7R View Post
    It's unenforceable without a registry.

    Two people do a private sale - How does anyone know? How do you make them do a now-required background check? You can't without the guns being tracked by a registry. So you go to JimBob and say "Hey where did you get that gun?", "Oh I've had it for years." UBC is meaningless without registry. The entire goal of getting UBC passed is to get a federal registry.
    Just to explain that a bit for anyone wondering why we would say that: It's not an automatic assumption that UBC = registration. It's just that we see this as a logical next step. It's not clear that the criteria used for UBC will be effective in stopping the next shooter. It would have stopped almost none of the high profile mass shootings.

    So let's say UBC passes, and then after the next mass shooting--there will be another one because we can't focus on the actual causes, we only get to focus on gun control--when CNN brings people on to say pro-gun rights people have blood on their hands, and starts wringing their hands for the next big gun control item, what's next? AWB is always on the table, but at some point, the twitterotti will be asking, now why didn't universal background checks work? Because many people are selling guns without doing the UBC, because it's not enforceable. Solution? Registration. We demand registration or you're a Nazi White Nationalist biggot who has the blood of every person ever killed by a gun, on your hands.
    I have spoken.

  6. #1466
    Grandmaster jamil's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by KLB View Post
    Registration would have to be required period, not at the time of sale. Then you would be unable to transfer a gun not registered after the registry is closed.

    As GP said, without the registry there is no way to enforce UBCs. They have been tried and failed in many places in the past, including here in Indiana.
    Colorado is claiming success with theirs. They say this year they've had something like 160K UBC's performed and have blocked something like 3500 people. One of them they claim likely stopped a mass shooting. He failed the background check because he was committed to a mental institution in 2016. They reported that he's currently in custody for child pornography, and presumably during the FBI investigation, they found search results for synagogues and mosques, which he labeled his "hunting list". Incidentally, it's unclear that it was a private sale that was blocked.

    Okay, so they accidentally may have stopped a mass shooting. Or, maybe not. I say accidentally because the net is so wide it's possible it could stop someone from legally purchasing a firearm who has a malicious intent, but at the expense of stopping many who have no malicious intents. I think it's reasonable to say that not all people committed to mental institutions are violent. Should we assume that someone committed for eating disorders is such a threat to society that they shouldn't be allowed to purchase firearms illegally? The criteria that made the pedophile fail the background check wasn't his pedophilia, and it wasn't the fact that he was searching mosques and synagogues for his "hunting list". It was something unrelated. It was luck.

    So what about the unlucky ones who are blocked but have no ill intent?

    Oh. And by the way, they admit that the number of background checks in Colorado haven't gone up since the law was put into place. As I said, the article didn't say whether this guy attempted to purchase the gun from a private citizen or dealer. So it's dishonest of them to claim victory when the same guy could have been "stopped" by luck without that law.
    I have spoken.

  7. #1467
    Le mot juste 2A_Tom's Avatar

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    Was the UBC part of an NICS check or a FTF?




  8. #1468
    KLB
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamil View Post
    Colorado is claiming success with theirs. They say this year they've had something like 160K UBC's performed and have blocked something like 3500 people. One of them they claim likely stopped a mass shooting. He failed the background check because he was committed to a mental institution in 2016. They reported that he's currently in custody for child pornography, and presumably during the FBI investigation, they found search results for synagogues and mosques, which he labeled his "hunting list". Incidentally, it's unclear that it was a private sale that was blocked.

    Okay, so they accidentally may have stopped a mass shooting. Or, maybe not. I say accidentally because the net is so wide it's possible it could stop someone from legally purchasing a firearm who has a malicious intent, but at the expense of stopping many who have no malicious intents. I think it's reasonable to say that not all people committed to mental institutions are violent. Should we assume that someone committed for eating disorders is such a threat to society that they shouldn't be allowed to purchase firearms illegally? The criteria that made the pedophile fail the background check wasn't his pedophilia, and it wasn't the fact that he was searching mosques and synagogues for his "hunting list". It was something unrelated. It was luck.

    So what about the unlucky ones who are blocked but have no ill intent?

    Oh. And by the way, they admit that the number of background checks in Colorado haven't gone up since the law was put into place. As I said, the article didn't say whether this guy attempted to purchase the gun from a private citizen or dealer. So it's dishonest of them to claim victory when the same guy could have been "stopped" by luck without that law.
    The mere fact that the number of checks did not go up would point to it being a failure. Antis always say their laws make a difference, even if they are unable to actually quantify them with real numbers.
    They shouldn't just drop a hellfire missile on your café experience...Rand Paul

  9. #1469
    Grandmaster jamil's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2A_Tom View Post
    Was the UBC part of an NICS check or a FTF?
    That's the question. It's unclear. It was an msnbc article reporting on a CBS article, so...

    What's clear is that the author either doesn't know enough about the process to know how to report on it in clear terms...or, is intentionally vague.
    Last edited by jamil; 08-12-2019 at 10:51.
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  10. #1470
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLB View Post
    The mere fact that the number of checks did not go up would point to it being a failure. Antis always say their laws make a difference, even if they are unable to actually quantify them with real numbers.
    I always love how suicides, gang related and police shootings end up in their "Mass Shooting" numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah View Post
    "Don't be afraid of the enemy! Remember the Lord, who is great and awesome, and fight for your brothers, your sons, your daughters, your wives, and your homes!" - Jerusalem 445 BC
    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus View Post
    "If you don't have a gun, sell your coat and buy one." - Jerusalem April 14th, 30 AD - Thursday, 11:38pm IST
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    INGO SUCKS.....

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