THIS actually makes me proud to be an American...!

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  • Kutnupe14

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    Why does this have anything to do with being American? You can find just as many Americans that think it's a bad idea. I ok with the idea, but I don't think the president's logic is sound. A person who is "proficient with firearms," isn't the same as a person who is "proficient in dealing with a threat." And the idea that a deranged person hellbent on going into a school and killing people, will somehow think logically and avoid places where some teachers are armed, is just nonsensical.
     

    patience0830

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    Not far from the tree
    Why does this have anything to do with being American? You can find just as many Americans that think it's a bad idea. I ok with the idea, but I don't think the president's logic is sound. A person who is "proficient with firearms," isn't the same as a person who is "proficient in dealing with a threat." And the idea that a deranged person hellbent on going into a school and killing people, will somehow think logically and avoid places where some teachers are armed, is just nonsensical.

    Many of Trumps thoughts (and ours) are imprecisely articulated. Gun free killing zones are stupid as a general rule and whether or not a deranged killer thinks past the act to the reaction is immaterial to the argument that those folks in the school have a god given right to defend themselves.
    If he thinks ahead and doesn't go, great.

    If he goes anyway, at least the students and teachers are on a better footing to end the threat.
     

    awames76

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    ive been saying arm the teachers for a while. my school started it a few years ago but the local prosecutor was not for it so it stopped. i work as a 2nd shift custodian at said school and have 3 of 4 of my kids at the school. id like to carry there as im there when theres ball games and other things going in the evening, sometimes alone [only school employee]
     

    Trigger Time

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    Dead Duck

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    ive been saying arm the teachers for a while. my school started it a few years ago but the local prosecutor was not for it so it stopped. i work as a 2nd shift custodian at said school and have 3 of 4 of my kids at the school. id like to carry there as im there when theres ball games and other things going in the evening, sometimes alone [only school employee]

    Among arming the teachers, secretaries and other staff, arming the custodians and maintenance crew is just as or more important. They are there at all hours, they have the keys to the kingdom and usually they know the campus better than most because they have been in every nook and cranny, basements, roofs, sheds, etc,.. and know all the shortcuts.

    Plus they usually have an on campus transpo. and radio access and tools. Teachers have....... books.




    Custodians :rockwoot:
     

    Falschirmjaeger

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    Why does this have anything to do with being American? You can find just as many Americans that think it's a bad idea. I ok with the idea, but I don't think the president's logic is sound. A person who is "proficient with firearms," isn't the same as a person who is "proficient in dealing with a threat." And the idea that a deranged person hellbent on going into a school and killing people, will somehow think logically and avoid places where some teachers are armed, is just nonsensical.

    Clearly any armed person in a school needs to be appropriately trained. I'm just glad we've got someone at the top who is interested in even the possibility of this solution. Whether a deranged person would be logical or rational enough to avoid a guarded school or not, I'd feel a lot better knowing that my kids will at least have someone there who has a fighting chance of doing SOMETHING to stop a massacre (this giving my kids a fighting chance of surviving it).

    Put another way, I think this solution makes a lot more sense and is likely to be more effective than massive, one-size fits all "assault weapon" bans that only affect us law abiding gun owners and will do nothing to deter the evil doers among us.
     

    KellyinAvon

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    I say use retired police officers and veterans

    You can't see it, but my hand is raised. Being able to move and communicate would be vital as well.

    Core staff of resource officers, teachers, administrators, custodians, lunch ladies, etc. every day, force multipliers with retired cops and GIs on a rotational basis. Not easy to get where we need to be, but nothing this important is easy.
     

    Knight Rider

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    Jan 10, 2013
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    Sad we are applauding the suggestion that a few, specially (by government) selected adults, be allowed to exercise a basic constitutional right in a public place. At what point do we admit we’ve lost the basic argument?
     

    AJMD429

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    You can't see it, but my hand is raised. Being able to move and communicate would be vital as well.

    Core staff of resource officers, teachers, administrators, custodians, lunch ladies, etc. every day, force multipliers with retired cops and GIs on a rotational basis. Not easy to get where we need to be, but nothing this important is easy.
    I definitely agree that there needn't be a SWAT-level training for 'more guns' to be better than the status quo; even if panels opened up and dropped dozens of loaded handguns out of the ceiling whenever the 'active shooter' alarm went off, I'm not sure how that could make things worse, even in a grade-school.

    I think 'only trained armed guards' is silly; too expensive so it wouldn't happen anyway, plus they would be too few in number, and easily spotted and neutralized first.

    Random teachers, since there are LOTS of them (LOTS of administrators too, but that's part of the problem). DEFINITELY custodians; they know the layout, seldom would be 'grudge' targets like teachers might, have keys to everything, AND are far likelier to be 'gun people'.

    As for other CCW with adults such as parents; I'm all for it. There might be the occasional love-triangle shooter gain entry, but they will do their dirty deed somewhere anyway, and would be extremely unlikely to do mass shootings of kids.

    Perhaps [even though the libertarian part of me disagrees with CCW 'licensing' I admit until our society goes back to holding people immediately accountable for actions, CCW will be mostly via 'license'] there could be a second-tier of CCW much like the second-tier of a driver's license that allows one to haul passengers or hazardous cargo in a semi....a CCW that is 'basic' and allow what our current ones do, and merely signifies you've been vetted enough you can CCW for self protection nearly everywhere, then a 'commercial' one that allows CCW in 'high-risk' environments, or regardless of signage, that indicates enough training you are the equivalent of a reserve deputy (which the school/parents are usually ok with).

    The other b.s. - raising purchase age, bump-stocks - is just useless stuff to appease hoplophobes and libtards.

    As for 'enhanced' backgound checks, WE ALL NEED TO HAMMER OUR LEGISLATURDS TO MAKE SURE NO REGISTRY is created.

    Background checks are proven pretty worthless, and the fact that non-dealers aren't allowed to access the system before a 'casual' sale shows the government is insincere in their goals, PLUS the fact that although one CAN do background checks WITHOUT the gun information going centrally, (it should require a warrant to access), the other side consistently refuses to implement a system that doent create a registry.
     
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    Trigger Time

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    I'm glad people and the president are including veterans in this. Mamy veterans have no sense of purpose aftrr the military and this would kill 2 birds with one stone for the lack of a better term.
    No not all veterans have as much weapons training as others but they will probably have to go through the approved training anyways. The mindset is what is key and I would hope that anyone volunteering to protect schools and our children would be doing it for absolutely pure of heart reasons and know what would be expected of them. Background checks are a must for all maybe even a basic mental evaluation.
    If you don't want to jump through the hoops then don't sign up. I would gladly donate my time for this.
     

    Kutnupe14

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    Clearly any armed person in a school needs to be appropriately trained. I'm just glad we've got someone at the top who is interested in even the possibility of this solution. Whether a deranged person would be logical or rational enough to avoid a guarded school or not, I'd feel a lot better knowing that my kids will at least have someone there who has a fighting chance of doing SOMETHING to stop a massacre (this giving my kids a fighting chance of surviving it).

    Put another way, I think this solution makes a lot more sense and is likely to be more effective than massive, one-size fits all "assault weapon" bans that only affect us law abiding gun owners and will do nothing to deter the evil doers among us.

    I think it's a poorly conceived "feel good" suggestion. IMO, the suggestion would't really be all that effective.... maybe slightly, buy not near enough to give peace of mind.
     

    Trigger Time

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    I think it's a poorly conceived "feel good" suggestion. IMO, the suggestion would't really be all that effective.... maybe slightly, buy not near enough to give peace of mind.

    Really? Why not? Not insulting you I'm genuinely asking why you don't think it's an effecttive idea?
    Give me a few veterans or former cops and I guarantee you that we will secure a school.

    There are no guarantees even with metal detectors. If someone wants to commit evil they will even without a gun. But you can limit the evil by killing them asap
     

    Kutnupe14

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    Really? Why not? Not insulting you I'm genuinely asking why you don't think it's an effecttive idea?
    Give me a few veterans or former cops and I guarantee you that we will secure a school.

    There are no guarantees even with metal detectors. If someone wants to commit evil they will even without a gun. But you can limit the evil by killing them asap

    Let's say a teacher ends a threat, and cuts down the deaths from say 10 to 5...or even 2. What does that do for us? Are people going to say "Well, arming teachers worked. The shooter only killed 2 people instead of 20?" Of course not, we're going to be in the exact place that we are now. The parents of the victims, aren't going to be thinking "well, it could've been worse." Other parents aren't going to be happy either... It changes nothing in the grand scheme of things.
     
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