"protective gun confiscation" orders in indiana?

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  • GIJEW

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    Reading an article on the legislation recently enacted in FL which allows for judicial orders to confiscate guns based on testimony of LE or people "close to" the individual, there were several states mentioned as also having enacted the same thing recently. Indiana was one of them.

    I must have missed that. Anyone know if this is true and if so, what the details are? Kirk? Guy?
     

    brotherbill3

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    Reading an article on the legislation recently enacted in FL which allows for judicial orders to confiscate guns based on testimony of LE or people "close to" the individual, there were several states mentioned as also having enacted the same thing recently. Indiana was one of them.

    I must have missed that. Anyone know if this is true and if so, what the details are? Kirk? Guy?

    This came about in 2005 after the murder of IMPD Officer Jake Laird, by a very unstable person. ... If you look up his name and the law it provides a summary.
    Guy did a show about it a couple of weeks ago. This is way before my time on INGO, but I recall the incident; There is a timeline PDF of what happened and such.

    Since that time - I've only heard (note: that means publicly stated to the media) of it being used twice -and once was /w a guy related to the Lauren Spirer case at IU -
    The guy was doing an "overwatch" of the club where she was last seen - w/ a van full of firearms or something. I do not recall the outcome of that.

    There is a legal process associated with it but I'm not sure I would agree with the "order" of where due process falls.
    There is also a legal process to reinstate the firearms you had confiscated; though I doubt it is as easy or as cheap as not taking them w/o proven adjudication.

    and I don't recall the code off the top of my head.
     

    Fargo

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    In a state of acute Pork-i-docis
    This came about in 2005 after the murder of IMPD Officer Jake Laird, by a very unstable person. ... If you look up his name and the law it provides a summary.
    Guy did a show about it a couple of weeks ago. This is way before my time on INGO, but I recall the incident; There is a timeline PDF of what happened and such.

    Since that time - I've only heard (note: that means publicly stated to the media) of it being used twice -and once was /w a guy related to the Lauren Spirer case at IU -
    The guy was doing an "overwatch" of the club where she was last seen - w/ a van full of firearms or something. I do not recall the outcome of that.

    There is a legal process associated with it but I'm not sure I would agree with the "order" of where due process falls.
    There is also a legal process to reinstate the firearms you had confiscated; though I doubt it is as easy or as cheap as not taking them w/o proven adjudication.

    and I don't recall the code off the top of my head.

    It actually gets used not at all infrequently, with the vast majority of cases being people threatening suicide. Very few are contested, usually because they happen because they called their family to say they were going to shoot themself.
     

    brotherbill3

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    It actually gets used not at all infrequently, with the vast majority of cases being people threatening suicide. Very few are contested, usually because they happen because they called their family to say they were going to shoot themself.

    At which point - I guess it seems like it is working as intended ???
    I did say I only heard about it in the media a couple of times. at most; so it does not seem to be being mis-applied at this time correct?

    which reminds me of a discussion last week at a seminar on traffic license plate readers ...
    BB3: "You said in 15 yrs or so the system has never been abused / used against any one improperly"
    Reply: " correct not 1 time"
    BB3: "how long is the data from the cameras stored?"
    Reply - "Forever"
    BB3: "So your tracking all the movements of all these law abiding citizens without cause "
    Reply - "Law abiding YET, they just haven't committed a crime yet"
    BB3 - THOUGHT _ YEAH - neither has the government ... but I didn't get to say it ... sadly.
     

    Kirk Freeman

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    This came about in 2005 after the murder of IMPD Officer Jake Laird, by a very unstable person. ... If you look up his name and the law it provides a summary.
    Guy did a show about it a couple of weeks ago. This is way before my time on INGO, but I recall the incident; There is a timeline PDF of what happened and such.

    Since that time - I've only heard (note: that means publicly stated to the media) of it being used twice -and once was /w a guy related to the Lauren Spirer case at IU -
    The guy was doing an "overwatch" of the club where she was last seen - w/ a van full of firearms or something. I do not recall the outcome of that.

    There is a legal process associated with it but I'm not sure I would agree with the "order" of where due process falls.
    There is also a legal process to reinstate the firearms you had confiscated; though I doubt it is as easy or as cheap as not taking them w/o proven adjudication.

    and I don't recall the code off the top of my head.

    That was the Robert Redington case in Bloomington: https://www.in.gov/judiciary/opinions/pdf/08061302ebb.pdf
     

    Kirk Freeman

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    Reading an article on the legislation recently enacted in FL which allows for judicial orders to confiscate guns based on testimony of LE or people "close to" the individual, there were several states mentioned as also having enacted the same thing recently. Indiana was one of them.

    I must have missed that. Anyone know if this is true and if so, what the details are? Kirk? Guy?

    Yes, it is true. We have had such a provision for many years.

    Read the Redington case and see if that provides some enlightenment.
     

    bwframe

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    I have a tenancy to agree with this Indiana Jake Laird Law. We need a way to deal with the mentally dangerous immediately.

    That said, could a federal law that mimics this one be abused? Maybe abused politically in the liberal urban settings, where conservatism is severely outnumbered?
     

    Trigger Time

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    Well I think we've seen plenty in the News and even from one prominent Ingoers circumstance how sometimes judges and court officials and even police can be used against innocent people. I don't like the idea of anyone coming for any guns. If someone commits a crime then arrest them and give them due Process and let their peers decide. I believe a lot of judges are fed one sided BS by prosecutors to get the results they want. Sometimes innocent people suffer and that's one too many. If someone is gonna kill themselves I don't believe it's the government's place to stop them. If they say they are going to harm someone else, arrest them and charge them. Innocent people die sometimes at the hands of bad people. You can't prevent it always. You want to pass laws that prevent cops and other innocent people from being murdered? Pass laws that prevent them from being let go by the courts when they have a rap sheet longer than a country mile.
    For the good judges and prosecutors out their fighting the good fight and maintaining your oath, thank you! You are patriots among traitors
     

    Lwright

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    Well I think we've seen plenty in the News and even from one prominent Ingoers circumstance how sometimes judges and court officials and even police can be used against innocent people. I don't like the idea of anyone coming for any guns. If someone commits a crime then arrest them and give them due Process and let their peers decide. I believe a lot of judges are fed one sided BS by prosecutors to get the results they want. Sometimes innocent people suffer and that's one too many. If someone is gonna kill themselves I don't believe it's the government's place to stop them. If they say they are going to harm someone else, arrest them and charge them. Innocent people die sometimes at the hands of bad people. You can't prevent it always. You want to pass laws that prevent cops and other innocent people from being murdered? Pass laws that prevent them from being let go by the courts when they have a rap sheet longer than a country mile.
    For the good judges and prosecutors out their fighting the good fight and maintaining your oath, thank you! You are patriots among traitors

    This.
     

    Timjoebillybob

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    It actually gets used not at all infrequently, with the vast majority of cases being people threatening suicide. Very few are contested, usually because they happen because they called their family to say they were going to shoot themself.

    When you say very few are contested, what do you mean? That few are contested at the first hearing or few are contested if the court found that the person was a danger to themselves/others and that the firearms can be retained?

    I have a tenancy to agree with this Indiana Jake Laird Law. We need a way to deal with the mentally dangerous immediately.

    That said, could a federal law that mimics this one be abused? Maybe abused politically in the liberal urban settings, where conservatism is severely outnumbered?

    There was a way to do so before this law. A 72 hr hold, it allows an officer who has reasonable belief that a person is mentally unstable and poses and immediate danger to themselves or other to take them into custody and place them in a mental institution for evaluation for up to 72 hrs. After those 72 hrs if the mental institution finds reasonable cause to find that they are, there can be a court hearing to involuntarily commit them for longer. During those initial 72 what is stopping the officer from getting a warrant from a judge to seize the firearms? Which is allowed.

    Not to mention, they can't seize firearms when a search warrant is required. So if they are in plain sight, or otherwise can be found on a legal warrantless search, they can be taken. If not, how can they know if the person doesn't have others stashed.

    ETA Not sure why the warrantless seizure is actually needed. If there is reasonable belief the person is an imminent danger to themselves/others, why would the officers be satisfied with just seizing the guns they can? Considering there are a lot of other ways to do large amounts of damage including vehicles for instance. Wouldn't if they actually believed the person was dangerous to EID them, then file for a warrant for the firearms? 72hrs isn't enough time to get a warrant? Hell even if they just felt the need to seize the firearms, in this day and age detain the guy for a bit get on the phone and call a judge. With email and such, shouldn't take long. And if a judge get's woken up out of bed or called away from dinner because the local pd/SD is abusing it, well... I'm pretty sure the abuse would stop quickly.

    So this Indiana Jake Laird Law has been abused?

    What do you think? Husband/wife, boyfriend/girlfriend, hell even a sibling gets pissed at the other and calls the police saying their suicidal. From what I've been told by an officer, it's policy to automatically confiscate firearms on a suicidal person call, I don't know if that is their own policy or dept.

    I thought the only way that law got passed in Indiana was that it had no loopholes for abuse?

    Funniest thing I've heard in a while.
     
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