Florida didn't do background checks for new firearm licenses for over a year...

[Phase2]

Doh!

For over a year (2/2016-3/2017), the state of Florida didn't run NICS background checks before issuing new firearms licenses. The reason... The employee charged with doing the checks couldn't login to the NICS system. She did not get her access fixed or report it up the chain. This was during a period of record permit applications. The fail is quite strong here...

Adam Putnam?s office stopped concealed weapons background checks for a year because it couldn?t log in | Tampa Bay Times

[STRIKE]So, at this point, it looks like the Parkland school shooter was enabled by:

1. Obama-era school policy keeping criminals in school
2. School officials that went out of their way to keep violent offenders in school.
3. A local police department that didn't report multiple encounters that would have made the Parkland shooter ineligible for a license.
4. That same police department not reacting quickly to stop the shootings once it started.
5. A broken licensing system that would have issued the license anyway even if the other government agencies were working correctly.

I know! Let's blame the NRA! [/STRIKE]

 

[KLB]

I'm not seeing how this has anything to do with the Parkland shooting.

 

[Phase2]

I'm not seeing how this has anything to do with the Parkland shooting.

Redacted- I found plenty of references to Cruz passing background checks to purchase rifles, but as far as I could find, he never applied for a firearms license.

 

[BigRed]

So Florida almost respected the Second Amendment for a period of time?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Tell me again how gun control works.

 

[KellyinAvon]

For a year couldn't' log on the NICS system. I've worked for government entities a very long time. After about 5 minutes I ask a co-worker, "Hey, you havin trouble loggin in?" Try a different computer, no luck, CALL SOMEONE!! The call will be to someone who answers the phone, "Help desk, this is Joe/Bob/Joe-Bob/Suzy/Fuzzy/Clem/Effus/you get the picture."

If you're a prohibited possessor it's still illegal to carry a firearm; no matter if someone in Tallahassee didn't run the "can't log on to NICS" checklist.

 

[VERT]

I don’t think that NICS is the only database used or available to the State of Florida as part of the background check to get a license. Obviously I do not know this for sure. But since a NICS check is run whenever a person fills out a 4473 to but a gun I don’t see why this is news or a problem.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I don’t think that NICS is the only database used or available to the State of Florida as part of the background check to get a license. Obviously I do not know this for sure. But since a NICS check is run whenever a person fills out a 4473 to but a gun I don’t see why this is news or a problem.

Well, per the article 291 people had their license revoked when they went back and actually did the background check. Not every gun is purchased through an FFL. How many ads do we see on INGO where people just want to verify you're a resident and have a LTCH? LEO stops someone who, say has been disqualified due to mental illness, and they present a valid license. The person will potentially go undetected.

 

[squirrelhntr]

No

https://youtu.be/nsdZKCh6RsU

 

[VERT]

Well, per the article 291 people had their license revoked when they went back and actually did the background check. Not every gun is purchased through an FFL. How many ads do we see on INGO where people just want to verify you're a resident and have a LTCH? LEO stops someone who, say has been disqualified due to mental illness, and they present a valid license. The person will potentially go undetected.

True. I can see that arguement, local cop at a routine stop would have no good way to check mental illness disqualification. But a prohibited person is a prohibited person regardless of the license. My guess is that if a person knows they can not pass a NICS check because of mental illness then they will simply carry their gun anyway. The other two checks (I read a couple news articles finally) should and would probably be more accurate for criminal activities. Seems to me at least the state database should include court records on a person being declared mentally ill.

I am not opposed to an agency running NICS as part of the background check. But I am also not going to get my panties in a wad about using, not using, passing NICS. What I would be more concerned with is the lack of following protocol. It would appear that disciplinary and corrective action was taken.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

For a year couldn't' log on the NICS system. I've worked for government entities a very long time. After about 5 minutes I ask a co-worker, "Hey, you havin trouble loggin in?" Try a different computer, no luck, CALL SOMEONE!! The call will be to someone who answers the phone, "Help desk, this is Joe/Bob/Joe-Bob/Suzy/Fuzzy/Clem/Effus/you get the picture."

If you're a prohibited possessor it's still illegal to carry a firearm; no matter if someone in Tallahassee didn't run the "can't log on to NICS" checklist.

What if they didn’t know they were prohibited, and were issued a carry license? I know it’s still illegal for them to carry, but couldn’t they fight charges for possessing a firearm under the pretense the state issued them a license therefor they thought they were good to go? Curious how this would play out.

 

[KLB]

What if they didn’t know they were prohibited, and were issued a carry license? I know it’s still illegal for them to carry, but couldn’t they fight charges for possessing a firearm under the pretense the state issued them a license therefor they thought they were good to go? Curious how this would play out.

Not illegal to carry. Illegal to possess. That is a very big distinction.

Think constitutional carry states. Just because there is no license to carry, does not mean you can own a gun as a prohibited person.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Not illegal to carry. Illegal to possess. That is a very big distinction.

Think constitutional carry states. Just because there is no license to carry, does not mean you can own a gun as a prohibited person.

I guess what I’m asking is if they were able to get a license (by mistake) one would assume he is legal to possess a firearm... in all actuality it is illegal because he is not a proper person, but if he didn’t know he couldn’t and assumed he could based on being issued a license, and he were to be charged for possession of a firearm would he be able to use the license being issued as a defense for assuming he was legal to do so?

 

[Double T]

Tell me again how gun control works.

Use both hands, line up the sights, and squeeze.

 

[KLB]

I guess what I’m asking is if they were able to get a license (by mistake) one would assume he is legal to possess a firearm... in all actuality it is illegal because he is not a proper person, but if he didn’t know he couldn’t and assumed he could based on being issued a license, and he were to be charged for possession of a firearm would he be able to use the license being issued as a defense for assuming he was legal to do so?

Well, he could try I guess.

 

[jbombelli]

I guess what I’m asking is if they were able to get a license (by mistake) one would assume he is legal to possess a firearm... in all actuality it is illegal because he is not a proper person, but if he didn’t know he couldn’t and assumed he could based on being issued a license, and he were to be charged for possession of a firearm would he be able to use the license being issued as a defense for assuming he was legal to do so?

Well, he could certainly use that argument as his defense. Whether he succeeds or not is another question.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

True. I can see that arguement, local cop at a routine stop would have no good way to check mental illness disqualification. But a prohibited person is a prohibited person regardless of the license. My guess is that if a person knows they can not pass a NICS check because of mental illness then they will simply carry their gun anyway.

Some will, some won't, but without an enforcement mechanism when they come to the attention of LEOs the options to deal with them before they kill/maim someone are reduced.

We have laws not because we are under the illusion it will stop every instance of the specific crimes, but because it will dissuade some and allow us to have a legal framework to deal with those who aren't persuaded. Murder still happens, despite being one of the earliest codified laws in the history of mankind. Yet, we don't shrug and say "people who want to murder will murder anyway". We use it to segregate those who won't abide by the law away from society to reduce their ability to continue to do harm.

 

[KLB]

Some will, some won't, but without an enforcement mechanism when they come to the attention of LEOs the options to deal with them before they kill/maim someone are reduced.

We have laws not because we are under the illusion it will stop every instance of the specific crimes, but because it will dissuade some and allow us to have a legal framework to deal with those who aren't persuaded. Murder still happens, despite being one of the earliest codified laws in the history of mankind. Yet, we don't shrug and say "people who want to murder will murder anyway". We use it to segregate those who won't abide by the law away from society to reduce their ability to continue to do harm.

True. There is a big difference though between someone who has committed murder and trying to figure out who will. What percentage of these people go on to commit harm? How many people that would never hurt anyone get caught up in these laws and lose some measure of their freedom?

 

[russc2542]

She did not get her access fixed or report it up the chain.

OR

she did so verbally and the chain said don't worry about it and she didn't think to get it in writing.

 

[Polotzo]

The title of the article is missleading. She did NOT fail to use the NICS system for firearm sales as that would be impossible to do with sales through FFL dealers. She only failed to use the NICS for Conceal Carry Permits which is a state level law. Florida is a shall issue state so if there is nothing coming back in their background check, the person gets a permit. I don't remember if there were any other state level background checks done by her department prior to issuing the CC Permits. The only thing that makes this a big issue is if anyone became a prohibited person after having purchased a firearm after 11/30/1998 or never bought a new firearm prior the 11/30/1998. In either case, they would have had to complete a firearms training course prior to applying for the CCPermit and would have known if they were prohibited or not.