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  • IronsKeeper

    Marksman
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    Aug 5, 2018
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    Not today, ISIS
    Hi folks. Looking forward to using the great resources here, and I'll just lead off doing just that.
    (I did use the search function. I found one that barely touched on my questions, and it didn't appear to be healthy to necro that particular thread)

    Wife and I are looking at becoming foster parents. Since last we attempted (previous agency went under) there is a new form dated 6-17 on firearms that states you must place your firearm in a locked compartment in order to be in the same vehicle as a foster child. I've attached a picture.

    I also need to ask what constitutes a holster that properly secures the firearm.

    Does anyone have insight on these relatively new changes?
    8aa48c9df26708e17e28d10c679e3c87.jpg


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    IronsKeeper

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    Not today, ISIS
    Other than dropping more money into additional lockboxes, I really just need to figure out if they actually have criteria for holsters.

    Given that the entire thing looks like it was written by someone with but a shallow scope of firearms safety and carrying, I'm not sure what to expect on that front.

    And what I didn't put originally (and should have) is more the question of "Has anyone dealt with this and how did it go?"
    Separating ammo and firearm isn't new, but several pieces are.

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    Dead Duck

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    Apr 1, 2011
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    It's always been non-firearm people knowing whats best.
    What better scam than "But think of the children". It does get old.
     

    Goodcat

    From a place you cannot see…
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    Legality questioned, it does clearly state their requirements. That being said, “I will be expected to” is fairly questionable as there is no legal basis of “expected to”. “Will”, maybe.
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    Legality questioned, it does clearly state their requirements. That being said, “I will be expected to” is fairly questionable as there is no legal basis of “expected to”. “Will”, maybe.

    It's not a crime to violate the terms, the terms are a condition to participate in the program. Don't live up to expectations, be ejected from the program.
     

    Goodcat

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    It's not a crime to violate the terms, the terms are a condition to participate in the program. Don't live up to expectations, be ejected from the program.

    Sounds clear cut to me unless there are other laws or rulings I’m unaware of. Accept a Foster child and get caught CC or OC, give up that foster child, without commiting a crime. Don’t get get caught CC or OC, keep the foster child. Weigh the risks, rewards and benefits. Make a choice and don’t look back, with no criminal charges either way. Iamnal.
     

    Dead Duck

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    It should be criminal NOT to carry a gun.
    By not carrying a gun you are putting your family at risk by not doing all you can to protect them.
     

    olhorseman

    Sharpshooter
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    Mar 11, 2013
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    Sounds clear cut to me unless there are other laws or rulings I’m unaware of. Accept a Foster child and get caught CC or OC, give up that foster child, without commiting a crime. Don’t get get caught CC or OC, keep the foster child. Weigh the risks, rewards and benefits. Make a choice and don’t look back, with no criminal charges either way. Iamnal.
    I see nothing in the agreement that CC or OC would cause a violation of the agreement (assuming you have a LTCH). The only limitaion is CC or OC is prohibited while in a vehicle with the foster child.
     

    ATM

    will argue for sammiches.
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    Jul 29, 2008
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    Crawfordsville
    When this first showed up last year, I pushed back on the idiocy of it all with the locals.

    A few conversations and promises of supervisors and managers getting back with me later... I was told I did not have to agree or sign anything on the front and was allowed to hand write my own personal firearm safety plan on the back of the form. This was for a yearly re-cert.

    I'm still waiting for someone higher up to call me back for a proper argument. I'd like to get it tossed completely. ;)
     

    nakinate

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    May 1, 2013
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    Noblesville
    It should be criminal NOT to carry a gun.
    By not carrying a gun you are putting your family at risk by not doing all you can to protect them.
    I get where you’re coming from, but that’s a bit much. I prefer freedom. If you want to use a gun to protect your family...then do it! Don’t feel comfortable with guns? Don’t use them.

    We don’t like it when non-gun people try to force their opinions on us. Why should we force gun ownership on them?
     

    IronsKeeper

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    Aug 5, 2018
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    Not today, ISIS
    When this first showed up last year, I pushed back on the idiocy of it all with the locals.

    A few conversations and promises of supervisors and managers getting back with me later... I was told I did not have to agree or sign anything on the front and was allowed to hand write my own personal firearm safety plan on the back of the form. This was for a yearly re-cert.

    I'm still waiting for someone higher up to call me back for a proper argument. I'd like to get it tossed completely. ;)
    While I understand this is personal experience and you haven't gotten anything official, thank you. It helps. Or at least makes me hopeful.

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    IronsKeeper

    Marksman
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    Aug 5, 2018
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    Not today, ISIS
    I see nothing in the agreement that CC or OC would cause a violation of the agreement (assuming you have a LTCH). The only limitaion is CC or OC is prohibited while in a vehicle with the foster child.
    Correct. I particularly don't like the significant addition of administrative handling. As my wife said, we could literally not need to share the fact that I carry with the foster child except for they will see me constantly fiddling with the thing.

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    Last edited:

    Hohn

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    Jul 5, 2012
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    It's not a crime to violate the terms, the terms are a condition to participate in the program. Don't live up to expectations, be ejected from the program.

    Exactly. But it makes little sense to me to create an artificial shortage of foster care participants by ruling out gun owners that won't be helicopter parented by the State as a condition of participating.
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    Exactly. But it makes little sense to me to create an artificial shortage of foster care participants by ruling out gun owners that won't be helicopter parented by the State as a condition of participating.

    It makes perfect sense from the perspective of a risk averse policy maker. Accidental shootings of self or others are significantly more common than shootings of bad guys. While any given person may be well trained and disciplined, thus at lower risk, the policy is to address the masses. So, you weigh the odds and the consequences. A kid who doesn't get foster care doesn't make the news, is still available for foster care, nobody is fired. A foster kid who finds a gun and shoots himself is bad for everyone involved.

    Agree or disagree, it's not hard to see the perspective that leads to such a policy. Their goal isn't maximum freedom.
     

    Denny347

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    21   0   0
    Mar 18, 2008
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    Napganistan
    It should be criminal NOT to carry a gun.
    By not carrying a gun you are putting your family at risk by not doing all you can to protect them.
    Some people should NOT carry a gun. They are either too stupid or to meek to possess such a tool. The world is full of sheep. Arming them just gives us armed sheep...not sheepdogs.
     

    Denny347

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    21   0   0
    Mar 18, 2008
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    Napganistan
    It makes perfect sense from the perspective of a risk averse policy maker. Accidental shootings of self or others are significantly more common than shootings of bad guys. While any given person may be well trained and disciplined, thus at lower risk, the policy is to address the masses. So, you weigh the odds and the consequences. A kid who doesn't get foster care doesn't make the news, is still available for foster care, nobody is fired. A foster kid who finds a gun and shoots himself is bad for everyone involved.

    Agree or disagree, it's not hard to see the perspective that leads to such a policy. Their goal isn't maximum freedom.

    h7Aveel.jpg
     

    Dead Duck

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    Some people should NOT carry a gun. They are either too stupid or to meek to possess such a tool. The world is full of sheep. Arming them just gives us armed sheep...not sheepdogs.

    Which is exactly my point.
    Those too stupid or meek to have guns to protect their families shouldn't have kids to begin with. In any capacity.
     
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