Surprised I haven't seen this talked about here.

[Ruffnek]

https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/ca10/17-3034/17-3034-2018-10-16.html

What's everyone think about the Kettler case?

Unfortunately, I think it's not gonna amount to much but, then again, look at the changes in marijuana laws that started in similar fashion. Any leagal eagles care to weigh in?

 

[T.Lex]

Interesting. I think any opinion from me is going to take more time than I have right now. Thanks for bringing it up, though.

 

[Ruffnek]

Given that the incident happened in 2014, I'm shocked that a search came back with nothing. Even Google doesn't give many results.

 

[cbhausen]

GOA is taking this to SCOTUS:

https://gunowners.org/gun-owners-of...o-national-firearms-act-in-u-s-supreme-court/

Let’s hope SCOTUS agrees to hear the case and this deals a serious blow to NFA.

 

[JettaKnight]

GOA is taking this to SCOTUS:

https://gunowners.org/gun-owners-of...o-national-firearms-act-in-u-s-supreme-court/

Let’s hope SCOTUS agrees to hear the case and this deals a serious blow to NFA.

Could you just imagine?! That would be amazing.

 

[Ruffnek]

Could you just imagine?! That would be amazing.

Sorry, but I have little faith left that the Constitution means much to anyone that high up.

 

[injb]

Could you just imagine?! That would be amazing.

Well, it might be cool, but get ready for a big fight if it happens. As much support as there is for a major gun control bill now, imagine what it would be like after machine guns and silencers have become common place and are being used in crimes etc. I'd venture to say that an all-new NFA written in that climate could be a lot worse than the one we have now.

That's not to say that overturning the NFA isn't the right thing. But might hurt!

 

[Thor]

Well, it WOULD be cool, but get ready for a big fight if it happens (Soros and Bloomberg want a disarmed compliant populace). As much support as there is for GUN OWNERSHIP now, imagine what it would be like after machine guns and silencers have become common place and are being used in SELF DEFENSE, AT THE RANGE, and in the HUNTING fields. Overturning the NFA is the right thing to do.

FIFY

 

[injb]

FIFY

Well you can edit my text all you like, but if you think overturning the NFA is going to make people who aren't currently supporters of the 2A to suddenly jump on board, I think you'll be disappointed. Hopefully I'm wrong though

My guess is that if the court grants the petition at all, and decides to rule in the plaintiff's favour (both far from certain) then they'll do it in the least disruptive way possible, which is to accept the argument that silencers are covered by Heller. The petition also claims that the entire NFA is invalid for 2 reasons (misuse of taxing power, and also a tax on a protected right) but that's a much more sweeping change than is needed to give him relief from his conviction.

 

[Thor]

Not saying it wouldn't be a hard slog...but you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. Any step in the right direction is a plus, we've been a long time walking down the wrong road. I can dream right?

 

[Ruffnek]

I hate to say it, but I'm afraid our dreams are all we have...

 

[HoughMade]

...look at the changes in marijuana laws that started in similar fashion...

I don't see the parallel.

In any event, the real arguments are the taxation argument and the 2d Am. argument (and in other contexts, interstate commerce). The Kansas "SAPA" is nonsense.

 

[Ruffnek]

I don't see the parallel.

To begin, I really think the outcome we're wanting from this is fantasy at best.

What I meant by that is the way MJ is treated today. While still technically illegal on a federal level, there are states that have licensed dispensaries where the BATFE could easily sit in the parking lot and rack up arrests for days. But they don't... The recent "pot reform" was started much in the same way, as civil disobedience by a state or two (in the form of not enforcing federal MJ laws). If there is a victory here, it's Kansas giving them the finger via this law.

 

[Ruffnek]

Sorry if my response isn't clear or doesn't answer the question. My brain is completely blurry today.

 

[HoughMade]

Well, the states never had a duty to enforce federal law. When states are prosecuting for MJ use or possession, they are doing so under their own laws. It's not so much "civil disobedience" as it is: "this is your deal, not ours,"

I get what you are saying about the feds being able to camp out and arrest people for pot possession anywhere, any time if they wanted to.

However, I'm not so sure how much prosecution for NFA items (machine guns in particular) was ever done by the states (assuming they have laws similar to the NFA). If it's part of a larger criminal operation, sure, it's just more charges to pile on, but I have been under the impression that most NFA prosecutions were always federal.

Kansas can certainly make the choice to have no laws governing NFA items like suppressors or machine guns and all the rest. Each state has that right. What the states can't do is control what federal laws are enforced within their borders by the federal government.

That's why I said the SADA is nonsense. The battle is over whether the NFA and the particular parts thereof are a proper exercise of federal authority under the Constitution because the states cannot render unenforceable, federal laws that are proper under the Constitution. Of course, if the law is not proper under the Constitution, it can't be enforced regardless. A state's opinion about it is irrelevant.

 

[injb]

The government filed their response.

Anyone know how long it typically takes for the court to make a decision about whether to hear the case or not?

 

[T.Lex]

The government filed their response.

Anyone know how long it typically takes for the court to make a decision about whether to hear the case or not?

It depends on when the clock starts. If we start counting when the case is fully briefed on the petition for certiorari (that's the official name for the document that asks SCOTUS to look at case). In looking at the docket, Kettler will be able to file a response brief, which will probably happen in the next few weeks. The problem is that we're bumping up against the end of the SCOTUS calendar.

At this point, I doubt we'll hear anything about it until next fall.

ETA:
Unless it gets rejected. That can happen pretty quickly.

 

[cbhausen]

Rejected, DAMNIT:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/s...-for-gun-silencers/ar-AACFdm7?ocid=spartandhp


https://gunowners.org/goa-reacts-to-scotus-denial-in-kettler-case/

 

[BigRed]

I used to cycle between "**** on the NFA and the BATF" and "the NFA and BATF can go straight to Hell.

I finally resolved the conflict with "**** on them unless they have already been sent Hell where they belong in which case don't **** on them; let them burn".