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  1. #51
    Grandmaster BugI02's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by chipbennett View Post
    And I'll take every round I can get.



    Indeed. Because such a ban would be inherently unconstitutional, both under the second amendment as written and as determined in Heller. All Clinton could do was ban certain cosmetic features.



    And still, there is no statistical argument to be made on the basis of school mass shootings, because they remain so rare that any change in rate is not statistically significant.

    If anything, a correlation may be able to be drawn between implementation of the Federal Gun Free School Zone Act and an increase in school mass shootings. I'm not sure that correlation would even be statistically significant, and correlation doesn't prove causation (though the writings of several mass shooters certainly support the contention that the increase in areas that force law-abiding people to disarm has led to an increase in mass shooters targeting people in such areas).
    Correct

    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=3377801
    Schools that Allow Teachers to Carry Guns are Extremely Safe: Data on the Rate of Shootings and Accidents in Schools that allow Teachers to Carry
    You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you

  2. #52
    Grandmaster jamil's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by chipbennett View Post
    I disagree. It is an argument, but it is not reasonable, because it is specious. Further, it is an argument refuted by empirical evidence.
    It's not specious to say that an AR 15 with a standard mag is more firepower. It's more maneuverable in close spaces. It can reach out reasonably far. You can put more shots on target without reloading, and in a shorter period of time, in more circumstances than you can with a bolt action. Those things are all true. Both rifles have different purposes, but the AR is more multipurpose than the bolt action. It's designed to be that. It's not an admission that it's right to ban it to admit the things that are true. It's a valid and reasonable argument to make. But, on the flip side, there are also valid and reasonable counter-arguments to make. One of those was the one I made relating to the gay night club shooting. Yes, inside that club, an AR will kill people faster than a bolt action assuming you're not a gifted shooter. But, he wouldn't have needed an AR to do the same thing that he did in that circumstance because people just cowered in place and were static targets.
    -spreading the word to end the r-word is retarded
    -activism is retarded because, what if youíre full of ****?

  3. #53
    Grandmaster jamil's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by BugI02 View Post
    Correct

    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=3377801
    Schools that Allow Teachers to Carry Guns are Extremely Safe: Data on the Rate of Shootings and Accidents in Schools that allow Teachers to Carry
    I'm glad to see some numbers actually come out. I'm not surprised. I'm not sure though that those numbers would translate if every school did the same thing. I kinda suspect that school districts which would even allow teachers to carry would tend to be districts where there is higher acceptances of defensive gun use and ownership anyway. I'm kinda skeptical that bat****opia California, where women are "men", and men menstruate, could actually make it work with that kind of success.
    -spreading the word to end the r-word is retarded
    -activism is retarded because, what if youíre full of ****?

  4. #54
    Plinker

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    Keep in mind that the wrong answer is still the wrong answer, no how many times the question is asked.

    If I am being pressured, as a physician, to prescribe an antibiotic for an epidemic, yet know that antibiotic won't work, and in fact is very toxic, the fact that MORE people are dying of that same infection this week doesn't mean that I should "compromise" now and prescribe that wrong treatment, just because things are worse.

    Wrong is wrong.

  5. #55
    INGO Homebrewer JettaKnight's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by BugI02 View Post
    Correct

    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=3377801
    Schools that Allow Teachers to Carry Guns are Extremely Safe: Data on the Rate of Shootings and Accidents in Schools that allow Teachers to Carry
    Devil's advocate here, but I'm not sure that John Lott is considered unbiased.
    Quote Originally Posted by Abraham Lincoln
    Do I not destroy my enemies when I make them my friends?

  6. #56
    Grandmaster jamil's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by JettaKnight View Post
    Devil's advocate here, but I'm not sure that John Lott is considered unbiased.
    Depends which side you're on.
    -spreading the word to end the r-word is retarded
    -activism is retarded because, what if youíre full of ****?

  7. #57
    INGO Homebrewer JettaKnight's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamil View Post
    Depends which side you're on.
    I would say that "unbiased" means consensus by those in the middle of the bell curve (i.e. a majority) that the conclusions are unbiased.


    Not saying I don't agree with him, I'm just not sure his conclusions will be widely accepted. If a study is a released, but no one believes it (except ardents), then what value is it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Abraham Lincoln
    Do I not destroy my enemies when I make them my friends?

  8. #58
    Grandmaster jamil's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by JettaKnight View Post
    I would say that "unbiased" means consensus by those in the middle of the bell curve (i.e. a majority) that the conclusions are unbiased.


    Not saying I don't agree with him, I'm just not sure his conclusions will be widely accepted. If a study is a released, but no one believes it (except ardents), then what value is it?
    That's not the world we live in. It's not a bell curve because it's not normal distribution. This curve has a bimodal distribution. Any research on topics that are highly partisan will not be widely accepted.
    -spreading the word to end the r-word is retarded
    -activism is retarded because, what if youíre full of ****?

  9. #59
    Grandmaster BugI02's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by JettaKnight View Post
    I would say that "unbiased" means consensus by those in the middle of the bell curve (i.e. a majority) that the conclusions are unbiased.


    Not saying I don't agree with him, I'm just not sure his conclusions will be widely accepted. If a study is a released, but no one believes it (except ardents), then what value is it?

    So, you're talking 'settled science' and '97% of scientists agree' or what? Groups with a vested interest in the status quo view consensus for change suspiciously. Ditto for those with a vested interest in radical change vis a vis consensus for conserving the old ways. Since Mr Lott is dealing with numbers, you might have to review his statistical methods and make a decision for yourself. Consensus == wisdom of the crowd == shouting out questions in a bar. Consensus just means an oversupply of wrong people
    You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you

  10. #60
    Marksman

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    Life would find a way OP, guns have been converted from bolt action to semiauto and even fully auto in the past, the potato digger was prototyped by John Browning from a lever gun. If anybody thinks our fabrication technology hasnít progressed in the past 200 years theyíre living under a rock; the Luty SMG pops up from time to time in Australia, a full fledged factory was found overseas pumping out full auto tec9 clones.

    When a ban on semiautos comes down it will change nothing, some nutter will still find a way

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IVNQQplAzu0

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