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  1. #1
    Plinker

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    Private sale and gun show "loophole" background checks on the horizon?

    I'm not at all confident in President Trump's position on second amendment issues. It seems every time a shooting happens he is willing to give away another concession. Setting a precedent that will steadily chip away at our rights.

    Possible legislation that would require private sales background seems like something that might happen. If it was a one time check, similar to showing a LTCH is one thing. But I am afraid all private sales may be required to go through NICS at a FFL.

  2. #2
    Master KittySlayer's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by IcemanIND View Post
    But I am afraid all private sales may be required to go through NICS at a FFL.
    And when a private sale goes through a NICS check then is it true that someone (NICS or FFL) now has a record (name and serial#) of the gun(s) I just purchased?
    When seconds matter the 2nd Amendment matters.

  3. #3
    Plinker

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    Of course this would raise questions on a national registry.
    Not sure how they could do this constitutionally, but the federal government always seems to find a way to make it work.

    Yes, as a seller, you would be required to maintain records of all sales. Or just let a federal agency take care of the record keeping for you.

  4. #4
    Grandmaster snorko's Avatar

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    Ask Kirk how well this worked in Indiana.

    I think UBCs are very likely, magazine bans/limits and a revised AWB possible/somewhat likely. I don't know if it would be better or worse if it were 2020.

    Of course the UBC will necessitate some form of registration so we know all are conforming. I am getting tired of reasonable people I know who are not gun folks regurgitating falsehoods and lies they hear on tv. I've started replying to their suggested "reasonable gun laws" suggestions with things like "all cars should have breathalyzer lock-outs to stop drunk driving. Cell phones should have to be tethered to the car and automatically put in airplane mode when the vehicle is running. Of course to make sure it's the drive's phone, we need biometric locks on the vehicle as well. If you have children, mandatory inspections to insure you have the correct car seat. Since kids grow, let's make them annual.

    It means nothing to these folks that 3.5X deaths were from knives versus all long gun deaths, heck, 75% more people were beaten and kicked to death with hands and feet than were killed by a long gun.
    "If you are mad as hell and aren't gonna take it anymore, grab your rifle and head outside. If you're the only one with a rifle screaming like a maniac, go back inside. It isn't time yet"

    "I saw a movie once where only the police and military had guns. It was called Schindler's List."

  5. #5
    Grandmaster DoggyDaddy's Avatar

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that under the current system (going through NICS), serial numbers are not "tied" to the buyer on a national database. That information resides on the 4473 only (kept at the FFL). What gets reported to NICS whether over the phone or online, is that "John Doe bought a handgun" or "John Doe bought a long gun." I have never heard an FFL relay that information to NICS when they would call in for any purchase I've made. I was also under the impression that it is specifically against the law (currently) for that information to be centralized by the government. So if some form of UBC were to be enacted, couldn't it be done the same way? "John Doe is selling a long gun (or hand gun) to Bob Smith." No serial numbers need be passed to the .gov.

    Don't get me wrong, I am not in favor of UBC's but I don't know that they would necessarily have to become a "registry" if they were just done under the current guidelines.

  6. #6
    Grandmaster snorko's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoggyDaddy View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that under the current system (going through NICS), serial numbers are not "tied" to the buyer on a national database. That information resides on the 4473 only (kept at the FFL).
    That is correct. However, when an FFL retires i believe they have to ship the forms to the BATFE. and, if UBCs were to go through, I would bet the serial # becomes another item submitted.
    "If you are mad as hell and aren't gonna take it anymore, grab your rifle and head outside. If you're the only one with a rifle screaming like a maniac, go back inside. It isn't time yet"

    "I saw a movie once where only the police and military had guns. It was called Schindler's List."

  7. #7
    Grandmaster DoggyDaddy's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by snorko View Post
    That is correct. However, when an FFL retires i believe they have to ship the forms to the BATFE. and, if UBCs were to go through, I would bet the serial # becomes another item submitted.
    That would be a new (and bad) wrinkle then, since it's currently illegal to aggregate that info. Even so, just as with new fire arms, once John sells it to Bob who sells it to Frank, who sells it to Susie, the trail goes cold, unless all the FFLs in between all retire. And if there is no central repository, each 4473 for each FFL would need to be looked at to find a particular serial number. Now, could they change the law? Certainly a possibility (again, that would be a bad thing).

  8. #8
    Expert fullmetaljesus's Avatar

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    Right wing republicans put him in office.
    Typically speaking gun lovers are right wing republicans.

    Do y'all really think he will alienate his voter base this close to am election year?
    WTS/WTT 9mm and 308 win reload dies.

  9. #9
    Expert flatlander's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by fullmetaljesus View Post
    Right wing republicans put him in office.
    Typically speaking gun lovers are right wing republicans.

    Do y'all really think he will alienate his voter base this close to am election year?
    Yes I do believe he would. Remember that with NO Republicans in the house or senate he has nothing! It's not just about him and his giant ego.

    Bob

  10. #10
    Grandmaster Denny347's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by snorko View Post
    That is correct. However, when an FFL retires i believe they have to ship the forms to the BATFE. and, if UBCs were to go through, I would bet the serial # becomes another item submitted.
    Not likely since the ATF is not allowed to digitize those records. When a FFL goes out of business and send in it's records to the ATF, they get stored in a metal shipping container to never be seen again unless one of us asks for a gun trace then they have to go through the stacks of records by hand. Without digitizing those records, serial numbers will NEVER be attached.

    On the other side of fear lies freedom.

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