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  1. #11
    Grandmaster eldirector's Avatar

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    One issue (of the many) with Red Flag type laws, and predicting "mass shooters" is that by the time it has gotten to the "red flag" point, it is WAY too late to actually DO anything.

    At that point, this person is already mentally disturbed. Already willing to harm someone. Already has the means, already has the motivation. Kinda late, don't you think?

    What we need is a system, a culture, that PREVENTS this type of behavior from forming in the first place. Identifies risky behaviors early on, and guides the person to resources early enough they can be useful. Promotes and encourages appropriate and acceptable behaviors.

    Almost every single large GFZ attacker had warning signs not days in advance, when these so-called Red Flag laws would be applied, but weeks, months or YEARS in advance. The Parkland punk had been going down the wrong path for YEARS. They Dayton punk had been publishing lists of people to kill/rape for MONTHS. But, we have chosen, as a culture, to ignore the problem. Don't get involved. Don't make eye contact. Just let it be.

    It has taken us YEARS (decades) to get to this point. It will be HARD to fix the issue, and likely take yet another generation to do so. There is no quick fix, no law, no rule, that will make it all better so we can go back to our cell phone and posts/tweets/chats/etc....

    And, at the end of the day, evil will always exist in this world. No matter how many hugs we give, someone, somewhere, will wish harm on someone else. Be prepared to meet it heard on, or be prepared to surrender.

    And, yes, this ignores the fact that politicians really have no intention of actually helping SOLVE anything. Having a few murders here and there is too useful politically, on BOTH sides of the isle. Makes it easier for these emotional responses, like Red Flag Laws, that do NOTHING for crime, but are a GREAT tool to keep the peasants citizens in line.
    Ryan "ElDirector"


  2. #12
    I still care....Really
    churchmouse's Avatar

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    This is another very large nail in the coffin that holds what is left of our freedoms. See something say something is just a precursor to this. I agree we should all be vigilant. But to put this kind of power in the hands of the left is not going to end well. And not just left leaning folks either. There are those on this side of that divide I have little faith in to handle that kind of power of others.
    AKA..Thor. Odin son. God of thunder.
    But you can call me John.....Force.

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  3. #13
    Marksman

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    Look what happened to Justice Kavanaugh during his confirmation hearing. Now apply that to every man in America who has an ex-wife, ex-girlfriend, disgruntled employee, neighbor who is pissed because you won't let his dog crap in your yard....you get the picture.

    Congress as a whole is incapable of well-written legislation.

  4. #14
    Expert Liberty Sanders's Avatar

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    I posted this some months ago in another forum:

    So-called Red Flag laws mandate the removal of guns but no other potentially lethal objects. This establishes that these laws are anti-gun, not pro-safety.

    During my long-ago law dog days in Ohio we had a law we called a "state mental hold." If we became aware that a person was engaged in some sort of behavior that was hazardous to themselves and/or others, and that behavior seemed to be caused by mental or emotional illness, we could take that person into custody and take them to a mental health facility to be evaluated, immediately,​ not in a few days. We didn't abuse this law and it allowed us to avert many potential tragedies.

    The difference was that we removed the disturbed person from ANYTHING that they could use offensively, and we did not have to confiscate, catalogue or store an indeterminate number of firearms. If the person was evaluated and released, a court did not have to return their property.

    Doesn't it make more sense to remove the person rather than a small percentage of items with which they could do harm?

    Not if the object of the law is to make an end run around the Constitution.
    "Don't let your mouth write no checks that your ass can't cash" - old ghetto saying

  5. #15
    Grandmaster Kirk Freeman's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by HoughMade View Post
    It's not about predicting the future, it's about reporting what people say and are doing.

    I know we all want to find reasons to do nothing, but there may be some reasonable things that have the potential to help.
    Yeah, as someone who got reported for making a FOIA request, I just want to say that we should remember the potential for abuse.
    A Sigma and a SIGma male

  6. #16
    Grandmaster Leadeye's Avatar

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    Who makes the go or no go decision with a "red flag law"?
    Where's the Kaboom? There was supposed to be an earth shattering Kaboom.

    Marvin the Martian

  7. #17
    Sharpshooter ashby koss's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by eldirector View Post
    One issue (of the many) with Red Flag type laws, and predicting "mass shooters" is that by the time it has gotten to the "red flag" point, it is WAY too late to actually DO anything.

    At that point, this person is already mentally disturbed. Already willing to harm someone. Already has the means, already has the motivation. Kinda late, don't you think?

    What we need is a system, a culture, that PREVENTS this type of behavior from forming in the first place. Identifies risky behaviors early on, and guides the person to resources early enough they can be useful. Promotes and encourages appropriate and acceptable behaviors.

    Almost every single large GFZ attacker had warning signs not days in advance, when these so-called Red Flag laws would be applied, but weeks, months or YEARS in advance. The Parkland punk had been going down the wrong path for YEARS. They Dayton punk had been publishing lists of people to kill/rape for MONTHS. But, we have chosen, as a culture, to ignore the problem. Don't get involved. Don't make eye contact. Just let it be.

    It has taken us YEARS (decades) to get to this point. It will be HARD to fix the issue, and likely take yet another generation to do so. There is no quick fix, no law, no rule, that will make it all better so we can go back to our cell phone and posts/tweets/chats/etc....

    And, at the end of the day, evil will always exist in this world. No matter how many hugs we give, someone, somewhere, will wish harm on someone else. Be prepared to meet it heard on, or be prepared to surrender.

    And, yes, this ignores the fact that politicians really have no intention of actually helping SOLVE anything. Having a few murders here and there is too useful politically, on BOTH sides of the isle. Makes it easier for these emotional responses, like Red Flag Laws, that do NOTHING for crime, but are a GREAT tool to keep the peasants citizens in line.

    if only there was a system that dangerous people could be entered into to restrict them from buying firearms and owning them I. The first place...
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  8. #18
    Master Twangbanger's Avatar

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    There are said to be 300~400 million privately-owned firearms in the U.S. Badly written UBC legislation, combined with sloppy Red Flag laws, could form the basis for driving down the number of guns in circulation, which is the goal of gun control in the end.

  9. #19
    Master Ziggidy's Avatar

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    This, although not good, pretty simple to figure out. At this moment in time, everyone in question is "guilty until proven not guilty (innocent)".

    With Red flag laws, everyone will be considered "mentally unstable until proven sane".

    The guidelines (unit of measure) will be determined by those who are always innocent and always sane - the left socialist party.
    NRA - Life

  10. #20
    Grandmaster actaeon277's Avatar

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    Gee, what can go wrong with red flag laws.

    "Una salus victis nullam sperare salutem."

    "A citizen may not be required to offer a 'good and substantial reason' why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The rights existence is all the reason he needs." Benson Everett Legg - Woolard v. Sheridan

    If you're a noob, develop thick skin, and read the FAQs

    Actaeon - act'-tee-on
    The death of Actaeon - http://www.paleothea.com/Myths/Actaeon.html


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