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Straw Purchase?
- Thread starter DadSmith
- Start date
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No. You are allowed to gift PROPER PERSONS a firearm. (including me*)
If he can buy it himself and he isnt giving you money to buy it for him, you are G2G.
/thread.
(*I'd like a GSG 1911-22, a Springfield loaded M1A....
)
If he can buy it himself and he isnt giving you money to buy it for him, you are G2G.
/thread.
(*I'd like a GSG 1911-22, a Springfield loaded M1A....
)No. You are allowed to gift PROPER PERSONS a firearm. (including me*)
If he can buy it himself and he isnt giving you money to buy it for him, you are G2G.
/thread.
(*I'd like a GSG 1911-22, a Springfield loaded M1A....
So what is a Straw Purchase exactly? I'm kind of fuzzy on the meaning.
I'm buying a Lottery ticket this week if I win I'll get you the M1A loaded.
So what is a Straw Purchase exactly? I'm kind of fuzzy on the meaning.
I'm buying a Lottery ticket this week if I win I'll get you the M1A loaded.
A proper person buying an item for a prohibited person ( a person who by law is not allowed to buy or own such item).
Okay thanks. That clears that up.
I think where it gets murky is from the sellers standpoint. If they question your intentions, they can refuse the sale based on their judgement.
So, my advice, shut up at the counter, buy the rifle and gift it to your father. As long as he's legal, you're legal. And the obvious, don't cross state lines.
Any purchase where you are not the actual buyer that supplies the money is what I read? Proper of not.
This is my understanding too. I've always played it safe and just bought them a gift card for the value of the gun.
I think what Vigilant meant was if you are buying the gun for someone that gave you the money to buy the gun for them. If you're buying the gun as a gift for someone (assuming they're a proper person of course), then you are the actual buyer because you're using your money to buy it. What you do with it after you become the "owner" is up to you, again, as long as the person you're giving it to can legally own the gun.
So what they are after is people buying criminals guns.
Correct. When Mr. Gangbanger with a felony on his record takes his girlfriend to a gun shop and gives her the money and has her fill out the paperwork for a gun that he is going to own/use, that's a straw purchase.
Technically yes, but they also don’t differentiate. If your buddy gives you the money to “pick him up” a .332 Whizbang, even though he is a proper person, you are making a straw purchase. Will it Be prosecuted? Depends on what brought the feds into your life to begin with.
Good point.
ETA - personally I wouldn't own a Whizbang in anything but 45 acp, but that's just me.
Kirk Freeman
Grandmaster
No, "they" are after anyone lying on a federal form. Criminal or not if you are not the actual buyer, you are committing a federal crime.
I think reading Abramski would help here (remember, his uncle was NOT a prohibited person when he wrote the check to Abramski to use his nephew's badge to get the P-R tax waiver).
https://www.oyez.org/cases/2013/12-1493
Kirk Freeman
Grandmaster
See if this helps:
1. Bruce Abramski, cop in VA, offered to buy his uncle Angel Alvarez (obviously a Stan Lee superhero) a Glock pistol with his police discount.
2. Alvarez, residing in PA, sends $400 check to Abramski for "Glock 19" (yes, Alvarez frickin' wrote that in the memo line of the check).
3. Abramski bought the Glock M19 AND THEN SENT IT TO AN FFL IN PA WHERE ALVAREZ FILLED OUT 4473 AND PASSED NICS CHECK. (Read that again, and then again).
4. Alvarez sent the receipt to Abramski.
5. Feds wanted Abramski on a bank robbery. Couldn't make him for it as he did not do bank robbery. However, feds switched targets to taxes and started combing through bank records and receipts. Feds find receipt for Glock M19.
6. Feds prosecute Abramski on 18 USC 922(a)(6), misrepresentation that Abramski was the actual buyer.
(6)for any person in connection with the acquisition or attempted acquisition of any firearm or ammunition from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, knowingly to make any false or fictitious oral or written statement or to furnish or exhibit any false, fictitious, or misrepresented identification, intended or likely to deceive such importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector with respect to any fact material to the lawfulness of the sale or other disposition of such firearm or ammunition under the provisions of this chapter;
1. Bruce Abramski, cop in VA, offered to buy his uncle Angel Alvarez (obviously a Stan Lee superhero) a Glock pistol with his police discount.
2. Alvarez, residing in PA, sends $400 check to Abramski for "Glock 19" (yes, Alvarez frickin' wrote that in the memo line of the check).
3. Abramski bought the Glock M19 AND THEN SENT IT TO AN FFL IN PA WHERE ALVAREZ FILLED OUT 4473 AND PASSED NICS CHECK. (Read that again, and then again).
4. Alvarez sent the receipt to Abramski.
5. Feds wanted Abramski on a bank robbery. Couldn't make him for it as he did not do bank robbery. However, feds switched targets to taxes and started combing through bank records and receipts. Feds find receipt for Glock M19.
6. Feds prosecute Abramski on 18 USC 922(a)(6), misrepresentation that Abramski was the actual buyer.
(6)for any person in connection with the acquisition or attempted acquisition of any firearm or ammunition from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, knowingly to make any false or fictitious oral or written statement or to furnish or exhibit any false, fictitious, or misrepresented identification, intended or likely to deceive such importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector with respect to any fact material to the lawfulness of the sale or other disposition of such firearm or ammunition under the provisions of this chapter;
Dont do things to get on the Feds’ radar.
Yep. Further reasons not to invite the man into your life. If they want your a** and cant get it for the original reason, they will do anything they can to get it another way. And even in some cases (rare) resorting to lying.
"on behalf"
Just a personal story. A buddy sent me to the store with money to pick something up for him. I did. I was buying something "on behalf" of him.
Another time, I went to the store to buy my buddy a gift with my own money. I bought the gift on my own behalf. He didn't initiate the purchase decision, I did. He did not directly or indirectly pay for the purchase, I did. It was not his idea for me to spend my money to buy him a gift, it was my idea. I then gave him the gift, having no reason to believe it was illegal to give him this gift.
Not advice, just an anecdote.
This is completely unrelated advice: always, always, always, tell the truth on a 4473. Never, ever lie on one- it's a federal felony.
Just a personal story. A buddy sent me to the store with money to pick something up for him. I did. I was buying something "on behalf" of him.
Another time, I went to the store to buy my buddy a gift with my own money. I bought the gift on my own behalf. He didn't initiate the purchase decision, I did. He did not directly or indirectly pay for the purchase, I did. It was not his idea for me to spend my money to buy him a gift, it was my idea. I then gave him the gift, having no reason to believe it was illegal to give him this gift.
Not advice, just an anecdote.
This is completely unrelated advice: always, always, always, tell the truth on a 4473. Never, ever lie on one- it's a federal felony.
And you stand a 0.03% chance of being prosecuted for it! They're not messing around people!
