Marion County prosecutor finds loophole in Indiana’s Red Flag Law

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  • KellyinAvon

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    DoggyDaddy

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    Okay, to look at this another way... Let's say a person is arrested for a charge that would disqualify him or her from buying a firearm, and then they're released on bail. Are they banned from buying a gun if they have only been accused, but not convicted of a crime?
     

    jwamplerusa

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    If I can find an email address, I intend to write Fox59 tonight and admonish them for their reporting.

    Since I don't have a Facebook account, can someone provide a synopsis of Mr Relford's comments on this subject? I would like to be consistent with his comments.

    Sent this off to Fox59 tonight. I don't expect a response, but at least I made an effort.

    "I am incredibly disappointed in Fox59 for airing the February 3rd story "Marion County prosecutor finds loophole in Indiana’s Red Flag Law".
    I have in the past been impressed with journalistic segments you aired on self defense and lawful firearm carry by the citizens of this state.

    A more balanced well researched segment was called for, if the Marion County Prosecutor's politically driven allegation was to be broadcast.
    Red Flag laws as they are often written (including Indiana's) are a danger to the Republic, and its citizens. Red Flag laws are most often written as a gun control measure, NOT a community safety law.

    How do I know this, because most focus on firearms, and not the myriad other ways a disturbed person can cause death and destruction. Effective laws would remove the person from society until they are evaluated and due process is provided, eliminating the threat the individual ostensibly poses to the community by all means, not just firearms.

    Are there better options with less damaging side effects than most Red Flag laws? Arguably, yes there are and they already exist, see the preceding paragraph.

    Further, Red Flag laws have already been weaponized by those seeking to do someone harm. This example <https://www.kktv.com/content/news/Red-flag-petition-filed-against-a-Colorado-officer-in-deadly-shooting--567025131.html> though egregious and extreme clearly shows how Red Flag laws can be miss used.


    What would have happened to a non-LEO citizen in the Colorado story above? It is highly probable the Red Flag action would have been permitted costing the recipient thousands of dollars and loss of a Constitutionally protected Right. Not to mention the government confiscating (really stealing) the citizens property.


    If Mr. Mears actually desires to do something constructive, it would be to IMMEDIATELY go before a judge to request a mental evaluation hold, and to begin the procedures following due process to adjudicate the Red Flag individual as a prohibited person. Anything else is a violation of a citizens Rights.



    I suggest you speak with Mr. Guy Relford esq. to obtain a more balanced assessment of Mr. Mears allegations. www.relfordlaw.com"
     
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    KellyinAvon

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    Upon further review: The NICS reporting added last legislative session was after a hearing when a judge determines the individual to be dangerous. Prior to that (1 July 2019) there was no NICS reporting requirement. I knew there was something in there about that.

    being dangerous as defined in IC 35-47-14-1 is not a crime. Neither is knowingly providing false information that someone is dangerous.

    Do we need more judges? Judges on call?
     

    bwframe

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    I'm tuning in after seemingly losing the last due process vs red flag law INGO argument. Have at it boys...

    giphy-downsized.gif
     

    edporch

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    Say there's a hearing within 14 days, and it's judged the person who had their firearms swiped was found to be of sound mind.
    Their firearms would be promptly returned that day?
    If not, the law should specify that they should be.

    Why do I think in reality it would be a months, years or never deal, where innocent people have their property stolen by the government without any compensation?
     

    GodFearinGunTotin

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    I guess I missed it...how does the prosecutor want this “problem” fixed?

    We’ll see how/if this thing progresses. These sorts of laws seem to always beget expansion and increasing regulation all in the name of “reform” or “closing loop holes”.
     

    DoggyDaddy

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    I guess I missed it...how does the prosecutor want this “problem” fixed?

    We’ll see how/if this thing progresses. These sorts of laws seem to always beget expansion and increasing regulation all in the name of “reform” or “closing loop holes”.

    My guess is that it would require worded that during that 14 day interlude between confiscation and judgement, the person whose property was [STRIKE]stolen[/STRIKE] confiscated would be considered "under indictment", but I don't know if it could be said that they were under indictment for a felony. Don't see a clear answer unless they would change the form 4473 to add an additional question directly related to red flag laws, and I don't see how they would do that if not all states actually have red flag laws.
     

    GodFearinGunTotin

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    My guess is that it would require worded that during that 14 day interlude between confiscation and judgement, the person whose property was [STRIKE]stolen[/STRIKE] confiscated would be considered "under indictment", but I don't know if it could be said that they were under indictment for a felony. Don't see a clear answer unless they would change the form 4473 to add an additional question directly related to red flag laws, and I don't see how they would do that if not all states actually have red flag laws.

    That might stop a person from buying from an FFL (assuming a supposed mentally ill person would answer the questions honestly). But how does that keep him/her from borrowing a gun from a sympathetic family member or buy one from the INGO classifieds?

    I guess my point is people intent on doing evil will find a way. I don’t think there’s anything this guy could instruct the legislature to codify would stop them.
     

    Cameramonkey

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    Say there's a hearing within 14 days, and it's judged the person who had their firearms swiped was found to be of sound mind.
    Their firearms would be promptly returned that day?
    If not, the law should specify that they should be.

    Why do I think in reality it would be a months, years or never deal, where innocent people have their property stolen by the government without any compensation?

    MAYBE outside Marion County. Inside Indy, you are screwed for 18 months+. Their rule is any firearm that enters the property room must go through ballistic tests to make sure it isnt tied to a crime. Get hit on your motorcycle downtown and they take your pistol for safekeeping while you are sent to the hospital? You wont see that gun again for close to 2 years due to testing backlogs. Luckily some officers will go out of their way to get the gun to next of kin/friends so it doesnt have to go downtown because they understand how stupid it is.

    There are even stories of INGO officers trying to help speed up the process by going and talking to the folks responsible. That doesnt even help. Hell, I remember one story where the gun was ready to be released, it just needed to get signed off by the supervisor butit was just sitting. When the officer asked for her to sign it so the INGOer could come pick it up, he was pretty much told to pound sand... it was on her desk and she would get to it when she was ready to do so. Nothing would speed up the process.
     

    Trigger Time

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    The 14 day thing is just bs anyways. Smoke and mirrors thats meant to sound good and appease unwitting gun owners. When you get the initial hearing, thats when you are going to most likely tell the judge you want a lawyer or have one, possibly plead not guilty but that's im betting at another hearing down the road. So who knows how long the dog and pony show really plays out for.

    In marion county the way they just let real criminals walk left and right, you probably stand a better chance at less jail time and less oppression of your civil rights by just obtaining another firearm somehow, carrying it illegally, shooting at cops and innocent civilians. You'll probably be out playing golf and staring in the mayors next re-election ad video by the weekend
     
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