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  1. #1
    Master CampingJosh's Avatar

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    Article from the Atlantic: "The Mysterious Meaning of the Second Amendment"

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...ndment/607186/

    Now that so much of what has been published in the past 500 years has been digitized and made searchable, the authors here use big data to examine the linguistic arguments in the Heller decision and in Justice Stevens's dissent.

    And before you jump in to comment something about the meaning of 2A not being mysterious at all, read the article.
    "The problem with internet quotations is that many are not genuine." -Abraham Lincoln

  2. #2
    Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by CampingJosh View Post
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...ndment/607186/

    Now that so much of what has been published in the past 500 years has been digitized and made searchable, the authors here use big data to examine the linguistic arguments in the Heller decision and in Justice Stevens's dissent.

    And before you jump in to comment something about the meaning of 2A not being mysterious at all, read the article.
    Fisrt off, it is sad that you need to ask folks to read the article the post is about, but I see that a lot here.

    It is interesting to ponder but I do not really see what it changes in the big scheme. Did you think it did?

  3. #3
    Just one happy gunner happygunner's Avatar

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    Such overthinking and over interpretation of a very simple, straightforward sentence. The simplest explanation tends to be the correct one. Humans tend to define the 2A on what they think it should mean rather than it's purpose when it was written.

  4. #4
    Expert Ddillard's Avatar

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    I can see the reasoning of both sides of militia and individual rights. A simple defining measure that should be considered in the thought process of the framers is that a large standing military was not even being considered. Sighting this line of thought should be considered as a belief that all individuals would thus be expected to 'keep and bare' such for a call-up measure when or as needed. The individual, thus was expected to defend themseves and the new nation as well. Thus, all citizens would have been considered militia. In one sense or another the meanings put forth were meshed as both militia and individual. ~~"One Man's Opinion!"
    "Yup!"

  5. #5
    Expert

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    It only becomes 'mysterious' when you try to make it say something it doesn't say...
    I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous...

  6. #6
    Master CampingJosh's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ingomike View Post
    It is interesting to ponder but I do not really see what it changes in the big scheme. Did you think it did?
    No, the Atlantic didn't have any authority to choose anything. But they do have credibility with Americans who rely on traditional media outlets, so it was nice to see them publish the result they found even though that result was--from their perspective--probably not what they hoped for.

    If anything might shift from the linguistic study they did, my hope would be that it's the recognition of two rights protected by 2A (keep arms and bear arms) rather than one that is often reduced to just keep arrms at home.
    "The problem with internet quotations is that many are not genuine." -Abraham Lincoln

  7. #7
    Grandmaster MCgrease08's Avatar

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    Another lefty academic exercise being concocted to try and cause confusion when there is none in an attempt to discredit 2A.

    The definition of a militia is codified in US law and it's pretty freaking clear. This is the modern version.

    ß246. Militia: composition and classes
    (a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

    (b) The classes of the militia areó

    (1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

    (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

    https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?...edition=prelim
    The Founding Father's were even more clear in their definitions.

    "A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined..."
    - George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790

    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
    - Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

    "The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

    "Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops."
    - Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

    "Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of."
    - James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788

    "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country."
    - James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789

    "...the ultimate authority, wherever the derivative may be found, resides in the people alone..."
    - James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788

    I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers."
    - George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

    And then there of course there is the hundreds of years of case law that has already decided that the militia is made up of individual citizens. https://scholarship.law.wm.edu/wmborj/vol15/iss4/6/
    Well, I ain't always right but I've never been wrong,
    seldom turns out the way it does in a song.
    Once in a while you get shown the light
    in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

  8. #8
    Blue-ID Mafia Consigliere KellyinAvon's Avatar

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    It's a good thing we have 2A, otherwise we couldn't arm the military. Military being synonymous with armed forces...
    INGOer #25,448

  9. #9
    Grandmaster GodFearinGunTotin's Avatar

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    Iíll admit I didnít complete the article but read enough to get the gist. This sort of reminds me of searching the net with certain health symptoms I have trying to find out what they really mean. Context matters. I might get lucky and find out the true cause of my symptoms or I might fall victim to my ignorance or my confirmation biases. It matters that the British tried to disarm colonists so that they could control them. It matters that arms were a part of life for both protection and for feeding families for years before the 2A was ever written. It matters that God gave us the natural right to self defense. When your goal is to build a case for tearing down the meaning of the 2A, using search tools to build up a sort of pros/cons decision tree, the tools used in this article would be a way of doing it while dismissing all of the back ground of why it was enshrined in the first place.
    INGOer #18,319

  10. #10
    Plinker Talonap's Avatar

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    Anyone remember the, "Penn & Teller on the 2nd Amendment", video? Old, but still...

    WARNING! "F" word at the end. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GNu7ldL1LM

    Last edited by Talonap; 02-29-2020 at 19:10.

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