First time Muzzle loader buyer/user

[jocmurph]

I am looking to make my first muzzle loader purchase, and I have no idea what to look for. Will any muzzle loader take the powder pellets rather than having to measure the powder? What is the minimum barrel twist I should look at? I don't really see myself making any shots over 100-200 yards, so what kind of scope would anyone recommend? What are some of the most common problems or concerns I should take into account when shopping for a used muzzle loader? I have only been shooting and hunting for about 2-3 years, so I still consider myself very new to all of this. Thank you all in advance for any help and suggestions.

 

[bocefus78]

The #1 issue will be failure to clean it properly and timely by the previous owner after being shot. Pull the breech plug, take a flashlight, and look in the barrel. If its not clean, hand it back and leave.

IMO, you cant beat a knight muzzleloader for the price. Sure, some of the TC designs are nice, but I refuse to pay $700+ for a muzzleloader. I own a TC omega, and a knight lk93. The knight is much more waterproof than the TC and shoots just as good.

Whatever you end up with, make sure it takes a 209 primer.

Don't worry about twist rates.

a 3-9x40 scope is about all you need for the woods. \

The best load I have found for both of my rifles, is a 250gr barnes expander mz bullet over 100gr of 777 pellets. It will center punch a 1" bullseye every time from a rest.

Any modern inline muzzleloader will take the pellets, but if it doesn't use a 209 primer, use pyrodex, not 777, as it is easier to ignite.

 

[ol' poke]

Agree with bocefus - the #1 issue will be improper cleaning. BP causes rust - especially real blackpowder. BP guns need to be cleaned after each shooting session - end of story. If they aren't, the barrels get pitted rather quickly. Examine the bore either visually, if the breech plug is removeable, or manually by running a patch down the bore and feeling for rough spots.

Can't comment on the pellets vs. powder, as I only use/measure powder. Either way, be sure you eliminate airspace under the ball/bullet. (Another good reason to run a patch down the bore - to feel for "loose" spots indicating a swelled barrel.)

Good Luck!

 

[natdscott]

New, eh? No big deal, but you really need to find an experienced mentor, or you may have to pay the price(s) that come with the territory of hard-won 'experience'. Don't do that. We've done it for you.

--Do NOT buy used. You are not experienced enough yet to know what damage can be done, or what to look for, so just stay away from it.
--Sidelocks do not take anything but FF or FFF granular powder. Only in-line construction muzzle loaders take pellets, and those shouldn't. They produce a load that mostly shoots like crap. Learn to use powder, know it, and love it.
--Second Bocefus: if you don't go custom, then go with something that takes a 209. I hate them, and therefore use custom, but they do work a heap better than 11's or musket primers.
--Do NOT dry-fire a 209 in your breech. Dry the bore with acetone well in advance of needing to load it, and leave it alone.
--Disagree with the 3x9x scope recommendation. That was "the IT" 10 years ago. With widening magnification ratios in more modern optics, I'd go with something with a low end of 2-2.5x or better, 1.5x, with no more than 8-9x power on the upper end. I personally hunt with a 1.5-6x, and it has been more than enough from 6 through 242 yards, and I've shot it further than that with fine accuracy.
--Mostly, I tend to agree that the twist rate thing is a non-issue, provided that you stick with the modern rifles. If you get into sidelocks, that recommendation goes out the window.
--Leave the CVA power belts in the store.
--When buying accessories: buy T/C. There..said it. Buy an extra jag, do NOT buy a patch worm, do NOT buy a bullet puller (unless you intend to run lead bullets).
--Clean the rifle before you clean you, and don't miss the action with all that 209 residue. Remove the breech plug every time you fire the rifle, target or woods, and clean off/apply new automotive anti-seize to the threads. Life is much easier with copper Permatex.
--Do NOT take the cold rifle back indoors without unloading it. Ever. Either shoot it, and plan on cleaning it, or find a way to leave it out in the cold.
--Before going into the field, tape the muzzle with a single layer of electrical tape. Add a wrap or five around the barrel up toward the front so that you can have some on-hand to re-do this safety measure after you take a shot.
--Stay with RECENT inline rifles: they're easier to get parts for.
--Buy cleaning stuff BEFORE you go shooting the first time: if you don't, you'll leave the rifle dirty for a week 'until I'm at the store', and that is unacceptable. If you can't or won't do this, then find another firearm.
--What determines 99% of the accuracy potential of a muzzleloader is the barrel, because they are so simple.
--Green Mountain makes good barrels. Really good. "A selling point of it's own"-good.
--When loading with powder, pour it in, gently bump the butt on the ground a time or two or three to settle the powder, THEN seat the bullet. Seating the bullet is not an Olympic weightlift, nor should it feel like one, but it DOES require some effort. 20-30 lbs of seating pressure ONCE the bullet is on the powder is normal, and required for good ignition of granular. But if you must use pellets, do NOT crush them by seating with that much force.
--If the rifle did not come with a good, SOLID aluminum ramrod, then get one. Wood ramrods are for target ranges or mantles or round-ball only rifles. Trust me, broken hickory through the palm in December is not a fun time.
--As orange army time approaches, do not underestimate the demand for your bullets and powder. Choose one that shoots well for you, then get quite a few on hand and a pound of powder, and a box of fresh primers by the end of October.
--You need to practice. A LOT.
---That being said, with plastic sabots in hot weather, you have to keep the barrel cool, or you can start shredding them and accuracy is, uh...not good. Try to shoot when it is cool in the morning, and don't rush the reloads.
--Once you get a dope chart built at every 50 yards from 50 through 250, you need to recheck it once it is cold outside. It WILL change, and that MAY cause you terrible trouble later. Diligence is the word here.
--I recommend starting with a T/C Shockwave 250 (the yellow ones work fine, no need for the purple bonded ones) in front of 100 grains of granular powder. I preferred 777 FFFg when I was using blackpowder subs, but it was not without it's downsides. That load is simple, easy to remember, and will get you anything you need to kill in the state, but will not hammer you too terribly on recoil. It is plenty efficient, and plenty of power. Remember all the stories of the gran .45-70 through .45-110 rifles on buffalo? Granted they were using heavier bullets, but that's close to what you're creating, one shot at a time: .45-100.

Stream of consciousness: over.

Please feel free to PM me, etc. to ask questions. If you can think of a success or a pitfall in muzzle loader hunting, I've probably seen it.

-Nate

 

[Mark-DuCo]

I have had good accuracy with CVA powerbelts and Pyrodex pellets in my muzzle loader. I use a 4x scope on my CVA Optima Pro.

 

[Leadeye]

Still get the old Knight 85 out each season, love the laminated stock.

 

[sugarcreekbrass]

My first ML was the original Knight Disc rifle. Absolutely loved that gun. That is until I bought a CVA Accura. I got mine for less than $300 when they brought out the 2nd version. After talking to guys from CVA, I went with WhiteHots and the 245gr Powerbelts HP. very accurate and easy to clean. I have used regular pyrodex, 777, Blackhorn 209 and I like the WhiteHots the best. Comparing the two, I would add that break open style is much easier to clean. A bolt action style is much hard to get the crud ring around the breech.

 

[Mgderf]

I have the CVA Optima in both rifle and pistol platforms.
I use CVA Powerbelts EXCLUSIVELY, and IMR "White-Hots" pellets.

I've killed more than a dozen deer with the rifle. The pistol is new(er), and hasn't been out in the field much.
Not a thing wrong with Power-Belts. None of my deer complained.

 

[Restroyer]

I have my eye on a CVA Wolf because my friend loves his Wolf. They are inexpensive also to start out with in case you no longer want a ML and they are very highly rated for the newer models (buy new as mentioned above - Wolf with iron sights and scope mount can be bought new for less than $200).

 

[mulsas]

I was given an old Knight LK 93 by a friend, so this will be our first season with it. It still used the percussion caps, and rather than convert it to the 209 primer, he got a T/C. So all I had to do was pay for the 209 conversion kit. His is a break action, which definitely would be easier to clean, with my inline it took some work to get at the threads. We are starting out with 250 gr w/ sabot over 2 50 gr Triple 7 pellets. Our main rifle is a single shot Handi in 44 mag, and that combo in the ml looks to give us very similar performance to the 44 mag, helps keep things predictable.

 

[NKBJ]

jocmurph,
My cents. When you are buying a muzzleloader corrosion can be your friend. Yeah, sounds nuts but here's why.
The TC Renegade is the modern day analog to one of the best hunting inventions of all time, the Germanic jaeger rifle.
TC made a gazillion of them. People bought them and used sabots and Pyrodex without proper cleaning. Stuck red dot scopes on them. You name it.
Nowadays there's abused fifty caliber TC Renegades floating around. The barrels are one inch across the flats and can safely be rebored to as large as 20 gauge, depending upon the depth of the screw holes for the under rib and sights attachments.
My myself I think .58 is plumb hunky dory but I have a .62 that is really cool too.
So, if you find a neglected and rusty TC do not despair. Look upon it as an opportunity to have the bore diameter and the rifling twist you want. Having it your way is way much better than putting up with what some mass production lowest common denominator outfit says you got to be happy with.

 

[NKBJ]

By the way, I had TC fifties rebored to .52 with a fast twist to paper patch off the shelf fifty caliber rifle molds (like would be used for a 50-90 cartridge). The rifling in TC's can be that shallow, as to clean up at .52.

 

[jocmurph]

Thanks for all of the info guys. I currently am too new to be able to reply to PM's, but feel free to email me at jocmurph@yahoo.com and I will respond there.

 

[Spear Dane]

About the Green Mountain barrels. Is there a brand of off the shelf MLs that use them or does one have to replace a current barrel? If replacing is this particularly difficult to do at home ?

 

[Mgderf]

Some of the upper tier CVA's (Optima for one) use Bergara barrels.
Very nice barrels.

 

[sugarcreekbrass]

Knight used to use Green Mountain barrels. Not for sure know but I know my Disc rifle has one.

 

[Chase515]

I just picked up a Traditions vortex strikerfire from dicks sporting good in Lafayette. 500$ with 150$ off and an additional 20% off on top of that. There was a traditions reaper for $319 and an additional 20% off also. Gander mountain has two kit muzzle loaders for $250 each both r basic muzzle loaders with no scope and everything to get started minus powder and primers.

 

[NKBJ]

Just a suggestion; look at what snipers used 1864-1865.
That will give a documented basis for choosing what works.

 

[natdscott]

No disrespect, NKBJ, but he probably shouldn't start with a Whitworth, and this AIN'T the Civil War. If it were, he'd not be asking about sabot rounds, and variable scopes, and inline rifles.

Even if it were, the assumption it seems you are making that because a military sniper used it some in a conflict that it MUST be the best, is false. Ask one. They use what's issued, even though it is not usually the sharpest tool available.

-Nate

 

[Spear Dane]

Just a suggestion; look at what snipers used 1864-1865.
That will give a documented basis for choosing what works.

On the Confederate side that would be the .451 Whitworth which had a Really. Long. Barrel. Don't think I would want to deal with a 50 something inch long weapon.