Why no more 7.62x54R rifles?

[spectre327]

Ok so Im sure this has been asked before. But i cannot seem to find very much information on it and it is really bugging the dog snot outa me.

Why arent there more 7.62x54R semi auto rifles on the market?

The psl has a questionable barrel and parts are becoming increasingly rare. SVD and the like are extremely rare and expensive. And the Mosin has an extraordinarily limited aftermarket market


That leaves the venerable Vepr 54R. How is it the AK, in all its glory has been manufactured Stateside yet the 54R has not been made available outside of the Vepr import

How come this rifle has not been reverse engineered and milled/stamped for sale here?

 

[IndyDave1776]

Pure speculation on my part, but my bets are on a combination of the desk-driving marketing people not believing that sufficient demand exists, especially if the costs are going to put the price point up there with a quality .308 like an M1A, a PTR, or an AR10.

 

[indykid]

I too will guess that with the .308 giving virtually the same ballistics and the number of great rifles chambered in that round, the 7.62x54R is falling out of favor.

 

[spectre327]

Thats what i thought too but the Vepr 54R in a sporterzied config has become so huge. And at under $900 it becomes a big bore contender with the higher end Bulgarian AKs.

What Im not understanding is the Vepr is essentially an RPK receiver widen for the 54R mags (PKM receiver minus the auto holes drilled), RPK trunions. How hard would it be to smith one yourself provided you could get a barrel that would work?

 

[IndyDave1776]

I too will guess that with the .308 giving virtually the same ballistics and the number of great rifles chambered in that round, the 7.62x54R is falling out of favor.

Thats what i thought too but the Vepr 54R in a sporterzied config has become so huge. And at under $900 it becomes a big bore contender with the higher end Bulgarian AKs.

What Im not understanding is the Vepr is essentially an RPK receiver widen for the 54R mags (PKM receiver minus the auto holes drilled), RPK trunions. How hard would it be to smith one yourself provided you could get a barrel that would work?

The only thing I can add here is that I do not see the 54R as having fallen out of favor. I see it as a cult-like favor with a limited market. It would be a hyperbole to say that in the case of the Vepr we had 20 guys fighting it out for the 10 rifles available, but I believe that the principle stands explaining why there is more perceived demand than supply. My guess is that the buyers/marketers/manufacturers are seeing it as a sinking ship once that 21st rifle is introduced to the market.

The joker in the deck regarding truth meeting perception could well stand in the prevalence of preparedness. The people making the decisions that affect availability at the level we are discussing probably don't take preppers seriously given their lifestyles. While I see a huge market here (i.e., a rifle at roughly 2/3 the cost of an M1A firing a balistically comparable round, ammunition for which I can get tons on the cheap from our friends in Russia), the desk jockeys almost certainly would consider the same though and then scoff at providing a product aimed at all 5 of the preppers in the US, and then consider that ARs are available cheap right not and feel even less motivation yet without understanding the market or the people who make it up, just numbers on paper. Perception equals reality is the battle cry of marketing, and it seems that those in the business buy into their own propaganda in this regard without considering that their own perception is based on a very finite set of information that generally does not apply to their customers.

Consider these examples:

1. It took Colt about 40 years of brisk sales of S&W and Ruger .44 Magnum revolvers before they finally conceded that there was a future in the cartridge.

2. Ruger, in just the last few years conceded that there was a market for a takedown .22 rifle other than the fantastically expensive and nearly unmodifiable Browning.

3. S&W crawled into bed with Clinton and couldn't figure out why their sales tanked. Not a product issue per se, well, I guess it did become a product issue given that stupid hole in the side of the gun, but still addresses the perception gap.

4. Right now, S&W has not even considered producing a 3" chambered Governor even though Taurus has produced for some time a 3" Judge, using the commonly-available shotshells rather than being limited to expensive handgun-specific ammunition.

Another example of the same principle at work with an entirely different product is found in an encounter I had with a young lady who was a representative for Caterpillar's agriculture division. Starting with my question of why Caterpillar did not make a rubber track ag tractor in the 75 horsepower neighborhood with a good variety of accessories this (presumably marketing major) replied that there just isn't a market for utility tractors as she explained how shoe grew up on the farm on Iowa and her family was still using the same utility tractor that predated her.

My take away from this:

1. First and foremost, not all farmers farm on a farm where you hitch up the plow, plow one pass out, turn around, come back, stop for lunch, make another pass out, come back, go home, and do it again tomorrow. Plenty of farmers rely on her so-called 'utility tractor' as their prime mover.

2. Second, no one has introduced any significant improvements in this segment in decades. They have refined the product in ways both good and bad, but my 50 year old Oliver 1800 (aside from suffering from years of poor maintenance) will do anything that a new one will do, which is where the actual marketing problem lies.

3. After this, I suggested to the young lady, based on point 2, that a ~75 horsepower rubber track tractor equipped with a combination loader/dozer (where you drop one from the basic frame and hook the other up, just like the essentially detachable loaders you can drop when not in use) perhaps including some other features the specifics of which have dropped out of my mind over the intervening 15 years. Her response was that the division hadn't yet grown to the point they could effectively service the customers they already had, so they weren't going to expand the product line.

My conclusion is that regardless of the reality in which we live, marketing people have their own bizarre ways of making the decisions which affect what we will have available. Now, as my work wardrobe wears, I will be on the search for 44/34 pants in a world full of purchasers coming from the same pool as the marketing 'experts' who deny the existence of tall fat people, hence making it harder than hell for me to find pants.

 

[rob63]

7.62 X 54R is a rimmed cartridge which causes feeding problems. Obviously, it can be overcome, but why would you pick it over .308 if you were building a new rifle? It introduces problems that aren't necessary.

 

[Bill B]

As a casual shooter if I see two cartridges with basically the same ballistics I am more than likely going to purchase the one that is more readily available with more options. Add in the fact that rimmed cartridges can be a pain to deal with.
just my 2 cents.

 

[natdscott]

7.62 X 54R is a rimmed cartridge which causes feeding problems. Obviously, it can be overcome, but why would you pick it over .308 if you were building a new rifle? It introduces problems that aren't necessary.

Bingo.

...and it's Russian.

...and .30-06 does everything it can do, and more, but with no rim.

...and surplus .30-06 has always existed in quantity here.

...and non-Berdan brass has always been plentiful for .30-06.



Did I mention it is a RUSSIAN cartridge in a land where anything Russian has been mistrusted and/or hated at various times in our recent history?

-Nate

 

[TheWabbit]

I'm sexy and I know it.

 

[bigbaloo95]

Glad I'm not the only one looking for tall and fat pants. 40/34 jeans are like hens teeth.

 

[natdscott]

Glad I'm not the only one looking for tall and fat pants. 40/34 jeans are like hens teeth.

Uh. Whut?

-Nate

 

[spectre327]

good points here. While I understand that 30-06 and .308 is readily available, and the love hate relationship with russian toys is ever present, here's my point.

The 7.62x39 is a russian cartridge that was, for a very long time, limited to the AK47 and SKS, with outliers all around europe, but primarily these two in the US. Now, the 7.62x39 has been adopted into the AR platform, while still in its infant stages due to the awkward and specialized magazines, it has been a successfull and fairly affordable endeavor.

The 54R is plentiful and , like the 30-06, has alot of energy capable of being delivered in a very small package. Until there is an AR capable of chambering the 30-06 for less than $1200, the 54R beats it hands down in a semi auto package through the AK platform.

With this in mind, and the success of the 7.62x39, why havent other manufacturers stamped out flats without the Select Fire hole? For heavens sakes, this transends the purpose of this rifle and enters the discussion of why arent there American made variants of the NDM receivers? SVD's/PSL's ca be made here with better precision. And before the argument of, "well this is america" comes in, look at the AK platform.

I guess my root question is.

Is there some sort of Manufacturing restriction, legality issue, or trademark that prevents us from making our own rifles to feature this cartridge.

 

[Mgderf]

I'm sexy and I know it.

What you are is a tease.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Uh. Whut?

-Nate

I compared the issue of marketing/corporate buyers not believing in the demand for 7.62x54R to their similar disbelief in tall fat people as evidenced by my difficulty buying pants. Apparently bigbaloo95 is having the same difficulty in his shopping experience.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

1. Because the cartridge was outdated in 1891.

2. Because the use of such an outdated cartridge is counterproductive and makes weapons heavier.

3. Because this is North America and we just chamber stuff in .30-'06 or .308 which is the same, but not as cool because the other stuff was invented somewhere else and hipster kitty won't give us points for just another bland .308.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Is there some sort of Manufacturing restriction, legality issue, or trademark that prevents us from making our own rifles to feature this cartridge.

Nah, it's just silly to make guns for an outdated, rimmed cartridge.

 

[Miller Tyme]

7.62x54r is not a "US" caliber and as such there was never a lot of development stateside around the cartridge.

But I got the bases covered

 

[Jagdhund]

Well since this is turning into a 7.62x54r show & tell, I'll just leave this here.

 

[dominicandemon]

I think there are no more Mosins around due to import sanctions with Russia. Also note this applies to Russian Saigas and SGL series and that is why there are no more SGLs available in the new market.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Well since this is turning into a 7.62x54r show & tell, I'll just leave this here.

But...you didn't tell us anything about it!