Need some advice on AR 15s

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • Dustycoyote

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jun 4, 2017
    29
    1
    Somewhere
    Hello InGun guys (and Ladys)

    I'm from out the western states. I hope it's not breaking etiguette to be posting on your forum... Good forum though so I wanted to ask you all for some advice.

    So I'm looking to get into AR's. I've only ever had bolt action hunting rifles and pistols (highly recommend Berretta PX4 storm BTW). , Really haven't done much hunting or gun collecting since being a kid.

    So I'm doing a lot of research into AR's and finding what you all probably already know. It seems that there are just a lot of brands doing a lot of the same things and without a lot of differentiation in the market it seems. But with some good advice from friends etc. I'm identifying some good brands that may stand out in warranty, quality of build/fit/finish, even though their product seems to be very similar to many others in the market.
    I
    'm not looking to get into shooting competitions or anything. I just want a couple guns (I'll be purchasing 2) for bug out guns and that I can use for hunting. Otherwise they're really just for me to enjoy playing around with.
    I' trying to stay with lower end entry models, focused on reliability, durability, and shootability but I keep getting sucked into this irrational need to own the cool looking AR behind the counter that costs 300.00 more than I really should be spending.... I'm really looking for guns from 600 up to maybe 750 but have found 3 or 4 that my irrational brain keeps trying justifications for me to buy.....

    So, one of those cool looking AR's that I found is by Seekins Precision. SS barrel, .223 wylde, really good reviews generally, seems to be a shooters gun with great specs etc. etc. etc.

    I was really surprised when I called them though and found that they don't do any MPI or HPT testing on their barrels or bolts. The bolt manufacturer that they source from does do MPI testing before shipping to Seekins but that's it. so all of the testing that Seekins does I assume are just for tolerances.....
    I'd really like to punch my logical brain in the mouth and go buy one of these guns that I totally don't need, but the lack of MPI and HPT, especially for a 1300.00 gun, focused on precision shooting really bugs me.

    Wanted to ask everyone what they thought about it? Should I just not be worrying so much about it?



    Otherwise....

    Here are the other guns I'm looking at (in rough order of what I'm kind of leaning toward purchasing [either instead of the Seekins or in addition to it])... would love to get feedback and suggestions or advice on these choices or others that you may feel are better values or better guns overall.
    I'm looking for a good shooting basic gun for best price/value. Don't really care about brands but I will pay for better components, accuracy, and durability. I like the idea of a better trigger system, being able to mount a flash light on the hand guard, and would heavily prefer a mid mount gas system. Because I want to do some hunting with it, I'd prefer a 1.8 or maybe even a 1.7 twist.

    Spikes Tactical mid length - (Specifically because of the review I read on this forum for the carbine version of this gun by Esrice and Lovemywoods..)

    Springfield Saint - seems to be a intersting gun with lots of core value upgrades but I'm really concerned that it is a new gun and really hasn't been field tested heavily by the public yet.....

    Windham Weaponry MPC - Not sure how good of a value or build these are. I see a lot of statements where they say "we're the original bushmaster gang and we know how to build guns" but I haven't found a lot of specs or details about why their guns should be especially good compared to others for the price.

    S&W M&P Sport - seems to be the gold standard for entry level guns. by all accounts a really functional and reliable design.

    Ruger 556 - an alternate to the S&W, that I probably prefer over the sport. Seems there is a high confidence in this model too, and it sure seems to feel more ergonomic and with a better trigger than the S&W, at least as it seemed to me in the store.
     

    AngryRooster

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    18   0   0
    Apr 27, 2008
    4,591
    119
    Outside the coup
    Welcome to the site. Lots of good information here, on just about any topic you can think of. There are people on here from all over.

    Do not leave out Bravo Company rifles. It fits all your criteria. We have 3 in the house and I'd rather have a Bravo as opposed to any of those in your list.

    Ruger & Smith both make good products, but they aren't quite up to the standards of a BCM.
    Spikes makes a good rifle as well, would still rather go with the BCM.
    I have no experience with Windham so I can't really comment on them.
    After their latest stunt I wouldn't own a Springfield if someone paid me to take it.

    Take a look around on the BCM site. You can get just about any configuration you want.
    BravoCompanyUSA.com
     

    seedubs1

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    24   0   0
    Jan 17, 2013
    4,623
    48
    Buy this. Add a stripped lower and stock. Done. /thread. Nothing else in your price range will come remotely close.

    Absolutely stupid good deal. For $750, you can have a Sionics rifle. That's an insane deal. Their rifles are better than absolutely anything else you will be looking at in your price range you specified. They're on par with DD, BCM, or LMT.

    https://www.westernsport.com/product/sionics-weapon-systems-ar-15-kit/
     
    Last edited:

    Tactically Fat

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    22   0   0
    Oct 8, 2014
    8,270
    113
    Indiana
    Aero Precision makes decent stuff at decent prices, too.

    Same with even the S&W M&P sport rifles. Can get one of those for $450 if you hunt for the deal. (Then shipping + FFL fee, though, don't forget that'll be added in)

    Are you wanting something to "play" with and upgrade as funds allow? Or do you want a "fully built" rifle that won't/doesn't need any upgrades because it's already how you envision a final piece to be?

    Before the absolute bottom dropped out of the market, I bought an Anderson Optic Ready rifle and have upgraded it cosmetically (+ a low-profile gas block) in order to get it how I want. I almost bought an Aero Precision "OEM" rifle from Brownells and a bunch of parts to dress it out but I opted to spend a bit less money and get a complete gun AND optic that served me until I assembled parts to upgrade.
     

    Dustycoyote

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jun 4, 2017
    29
    1
    Somewhere
    Thank you to everyone for the info an suggestions.

    I'm sure the suggestions above really good but my concern is that I'm not very experienced and so consideration for manufacturers/assemblers that I don't have a lot of info on (the vision and sionics recommendations) are a little scary. especially the scionics as I've never built a gun....

    I checked out the Bravo. I know that they have a really good name but their prices are kind of steep (I'm sure th pricing is supported by their quality). Me justifying paying over 1000.00 is unlikely however, even with my burgeoning infatuation with these toys.. :)

    As far as what I'm looking for, i think that I'd like a solid and usable gun now, rather than plan to upgrade options on it later. It seems like buying a 500.00 gun and then replacing parts on it wouldn't be as cost effective as just buying the 800.00 gun in the first place.
     

    seedubs1

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    24   0   0
    Jan 17, 2013
    4,623
    48
    Get over it and get the Sionics. It's on par with anything DD, bcm, or LMT.

    Nothing else in your price range will be remotely close to the Sionics. Read up on them on any of the ar specific forums. They are exceptional.
     

    woodstock

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Nov 22, 2015
    57
    8
    Sullivan
    I don't think you could go wrong with any of the AR's you listed. I'd recommend going with either the M&P sport II or the Spikes mid length.
     

    The Bubba Effect

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    19   0   0
    May 13, 2010
    6,221
    113
    High Rockies
    How about you buy an M&P Sport, shoot a few thousand rounds through it and then decide if you want to buy a much more expensive rifle to go along with it?

    That way you get off the fence, you get your hands on an AR, and you start learning what you like about the platform and do not like. If you do this, then the reviews and ratings for the fancy guns will mean more to you and make you a more informed buyer in general when you break out the big bucks.

    I hate to be the one to break it to you, but your first two AR's will probably just be the first two. They multiply.

    Right now is a great time to buy AR's!
     

    Hop

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    16   0   0
    Jan 21, 2008
    5,084
    83
    Indy
    You can also mix and match an assembled lower and get a higher quality upper from someone like BCM. There's only two push pins holding them together. You can say you assembled your own AR15 that way. ;)

    An MPI bolt is pretty important to me and one that also has HPT even better. Seeking has some really good parts. Not sure why they wouldn't kick in the few extra $ for the higher end bolt.
     

    Tyler-The-Piker

    Boondock Saint
    Rating - 100%
    101   0   0
    Jun 24, 2013
    4,756
    77
    ><(((((*>
    Dusty here's my advice. When you come on here and ask a question about ARs you will get some great information but always pay close attention to seedubs and rvb
     

    Trigger Time

    Air guitar master
    Rating - 98.6%
    204   3   0
    Aug 26, 2011
    40,112
    113
    SOUTH of Zombie city
    You don't need anything highend just from reading your post. I'd get a sport II and call it a day. Or an aero from brownells. You can get them for $400 and change. You'll have to add a stock set. Simple. Great and underrated guns for the money
     

    russc2542

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    24   0   0
    Oct 24, 2015
    2,111
    83
    Columbus
    How about you buy an M&P Sport, shoot a few thousand rounds through it and then decide if you want to buy a much more expensive rifle to go along with it?

    That way you get off the fence, you get your hands on an AR, and you start learning what you like about the platform and do not like. If you do this, then the reviews and ratings for the fancy guns will mean more to you and make you a more informed buyer in general when you break out the big bucks.

    I hate to be the one to break it to you, but your first two AR's will probably just be the first two. They multiply.

    Right now is a great time to buy AR's!

    ^This^
    The time to buy an AR is now. just get an average one (like the M&P) cheap and leave some cash for customization as you slowly realize you want different furniture and learn about them. Once you have a better idea of what you want and if you want more (and save up for it) you can drop the dough on a better one that's much closer to what you want. Until you get one and have it a while, you won't even know what you want or what fits you and your uses best and obsessing over the niggly details is fun but there are so many options and details on an AR you can debate it the rest of your life and never reach a conclusion. So just go buy the M&P and slowly work up what you want out of it.

    That's kinda what I did and I'm happy so far: got a cheapo AR as part of a trade on a crappy deathtrap motorcycle (full disclosure to seller, I'm not THAT bad of a person), have swapped out a few parts, and someday may or may not get a whole new one if I decide what I want.
     

    throttletony

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    12   0   0
    Jul 11, 2011
    3,630
    38
    nearby
    ANY of the ones on your list would be fine. I know from personal experience that Ruger and Smith&Wesson will take care of their customers and products, though the Ruger is a bit rougher to begin with.
    I'd (maybe) pass on the Springfield, unless I found a killer deal on one. Springfield tried to screw over the smaller gun companies in Illinois a few months ago, and left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths.
    I like Windham just because of their former history as Bushmaster when that was a more respected name. I have no doubts that their gear is on-par or above average for the price. You can get any of these and then add a premium BCG later...
    My general advice is to NOT get too hung up on the extra quality control (HPT/MPI) IF you're also trying to keep it budget-friendly. These companies have good reputations and use quality parts.

    Great thinking to get 2 rifles. 2 is 1, and 1 is none if anything were to give you problems.

    From your list, I would buy in this order
    1st - Spikes mid
    2nd - S&W (other than 'sport II' if you can afford)
    3rd - Windham
    4th - Springfield * and Ruger

    * If not for their legal garbage lately, I'd put the Saint at #3.

    Edit: Revised.
     
    Last edited:

    seedubs1

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    24   0   0
    Jan 17, 2013
    4,623
    48
    Why buy a junk AR for $500ish when you have budgeted for $750-800??? An M&P Sport, Aero, Anderson, Spikes, etc... is a complete joke compared to what you get with a Sionics rifle.

    Spend the $750-800 and have a rifle that's a buy it for life rifle. It will serve you well and you won't have issues with it like you may with the others listed in this thread. And Sionics stands behind their product 100%. They don't **** around.

    Again, the Sionics stuff is every bit the quality BCM, LMT, and DD are. They are EXTREMELY nice. It's honestly ludicrous that you can get one for the price they are right now. You won't hear anything about them here because this is not an AR forum.
     
    Last edited:

    seedubs1

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    24   0   0
    Jan 17, 2013
    4,623
    48
    I completely disagree (respectfully) on all of these points. Personally, I think of an AR as something I may have to stake my life on. The lower end crap suggested in this thread has proven to be less reliable in every reliable instructor's classes. The OP can buy crap for $500, but he has stated a budget of $750-800. Why buy low end junk when he has a budget that allows him to start out right with a rifle that will not let him down? We're not talking boutique rifles here. We're talking upgrading from junk to extremely good quality with the extra $250-300.

    And by "premium" BCM, I believe you're talking about standard mil-spec. That should be the LOWEST grade BCG anyone utilizes in something they may have to stake their life on. Don't skimp on the BCG.

    ANY of the ones on your list would be fine. I know from personal experience that Ruger and Smith&Wesson will take care of their customers and products.
    You can get any of these and then add a premium BCG later...
    My general advice is to NOT get too hung up on the extra quality control (HPT/MPI) IF you're also trying to keep it budget-friendly. These companies have good reputations and use quality parts.
     

    throttletony

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    12   0   0
    Jul 11, 2011
    3,630
    38
    nearby
    I completely disagree (respectfully) on all of these points. Personally, I think of an AR as something I may have to stake my life on. The lower end crap suggested in this thread has proven to be less reliable in every reliable instructor's classes. The OP can buy crap for $500, but he has stated a budget of $750-800. Why buy low end junk when he has a budget that allows him to start out right with a rifle that will not let him down? We're not talking boutique rifles here. We're talking upgrading from junk to extremely good quality with the extra $250-300.

    And by "premium" BCM, I believe you're talking about standard mil-spec. That should be the LOWEST grade BCG anyone utilizes in something they may have to stake their life on. Don't skimp on the BCG.

    I mentioned upgrading the BCG. And I'm all for quality -- I took a yr to find individual parts I wanted for my build to get the highest quality for my budget. I was not telling him to go buy a Kel-Tec :) I don't doubt that the SCIONICS rifle would be a bamf!

    I thought the OP was more concerned about getting 2 price-point rifles. If I misunderstood, then that's my bad. He seems very hung-up on price. There's a noticeable gap between say $550x2 and $800x2. It sounds like he just needs a basic AR, and HE DOESN'T WANT TO BUILD.

    Just staying within the parameters
     
    Last edited:

    seedubs1

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    24   0   0
    Jan 17, 2013
    4,623
    48
    eh.....if he can't put a lower together.....well.....idk what to say. Lots of jokes and stuff about his man card and such :laugh:

    If his budget is $550 for each rifle ($1100 total), I'd recommend he get one quality rifle and get a second later down the road. One is none and two is one and all that jazz.....I'd rather spend my money on one quality rifle than two bottom of the barrel junkers with less than mil-spec components.

    HE DOESN'T WANT TO BUILD.
     
    Top Bottom