Forward Assist - Do you "need" it. Why?

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  • Is no fwd assist on an AR-15 a deal breaker?


    • Total voters
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    ajeandy

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    Oct 25, 2013
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    After browsing some AR-15's I noticed that some come with FWD Assist and some do not.

    After doing some research I found mixed reviews regarding the necessity of a FWD Assist.

    I found quite a few people who were all for the FWD Assist, but their reasoning was all theory based and not based on experience.

    I also found several people, including military, who said they have never used it, even with the rifle being hot/dirty.

    My question is, do you need a FWD assist on a basic civilian rifle. If yes, give your reasoning with practical applicable examples as to when you've needed to use it.
     

    T.Lex

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    Mar 30, 2011
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    ***Kirk Freeman, Mr. Kirk Freeman, please pick up the extra exploding red courtesy phone. Mr. Kirk Freeman....***
     

    possum_128

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    Mar 21, 2008
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    If a rifle needs a forward assist then I would pass on buying it. Which is one of the many reasons I do not like about the platform. I prefer an AK which requires no type of assist except to pull the trigger to make it fire each and every time. Used the platform when serving in the Army and between having to use the assist as well as clearing jams is why the platform leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
     
    Last edited:

    DanVoils

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    Is it needed in a civilian rifle? No, not really. Is it something that is essentially a basic most always included feature? Yes.
    Pretty much unless you're building your own every upper comes with it. It doesn't take away from any other features or functions being there so to me it doesn't matter.

    In response to your 3rd poll choice I present the front of the t-short I bought for my grand daughter. (Her father is a long time member here.)
    I'll get a picture of her in it with her dad later.

    OMG_Bacon.jpg
     

    mcapo

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    Needed for civilian use: No....

    The very few times I could have used one - I removed the round instead of using the FWD assist. Granted if it was in 3 gun competition; I would have used the FWD assist. Guess it depends on your definition of civilian use.

    Probably won't buy one without just because the market expects it as a "feature".
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    Necessity depends on what you're doing with it. If it's a toy, nothing is necessary.

    For serious work, I would not consider a rifle without a FA. Even if you never have a malfunction, you use it to make sure the bolt is closed after a chamber check.
     

    ROLEXrifleman

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    Feb 7, 2009
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    Even the original design of the Ar15/M16 didn't call for a FA. It wasn't until the issues with ammo in Vietnam that it was added to the platform. So Stoner himself didn't even draw it in.
    The fact is if you need to use the FA to push the round in theres another issue with the gun that needs to be addressed b4 you pull the trigger. Be it a weak spring, chamber obstruction or ammo related.
    The FA is just a hold over from times gone by, it's not needed.
    BTW, my Armalite AR10's don't have it nor do a lot of companies use them anymore
     

    Kutnupe14

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    Necessity depends on what you're doing with it. If it's a toy, nothing is necessary.

    For serious work, I would not consider a rifle without a FA. Even if you never have a malfunction, you use it to make sure the bolt is closed after a chamber check.

    +1... who is going to turn down a feature that could potentially fix a problem?
     

    Kutnupe14

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    If a rifle needs a forward assist then I would pass on buying it. Which is one of the many reasons I do not like about the platform. I prefer and AK which requires no type of assist except to pull the trigger to make it fire each and every time. Used the platform when serving in the Army and between having to use the assist as well as clearing jams is why the platform leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

    The Ak actually kinda does have a forward assist; the charging handle. If a round doesn't seat, you just jam it forward.
     

    sgreen3

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    I've never used one on any AR I've ever had. From just messing around plinking to all the carbine courses and other classes I've done still have never needed it. Even if I had an issue were it would be needed I still probably wouldn't use it, just something about forcing the bolt into the chamber when there is a reason why it wont go in just doesn't seem like a good idea...
     

    Bigtanker

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    Necessity depends on what you're doing with it. If it's a toy, nothing is necessary.

    For serious work, I would not consider a rifle without a FA. Even if you never have a malfunction, you use it to make sure the bolt is closed after a chamber check.

    I agree with this. I didn't think I'd use it but I found that I use it after a chamber check. Quite a bit in fact.
     

    JAL

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    It was quickly added to the M16 when powder fouling started causing stoppages that required disassembly, resulting in a significant number of soldier deaths in Vietnam when the first batches of M16s were fielded. Their bodies were found next to disassembled rifles that had FTC stoppages. The gas impingement AR-15s eventually powder foul, and the hot gases burn and/or evaporate lubricants. The M16(Ax), M4 and gas impingement AR-15s must be cleaned often and kept lubricated. In terms of more recent history, the 507th Maintenance Company ambush in Iraq suffered many M16A2 failures. I've very little doubt it was caused by the rifles not being cleaned frequently enough (not so much powder fouling as the silt-like sand), and not being kept sufficiently lubricated. As soon as I read a detailed report on that ambush that cited all the rifle jams, I knew exactly why that had occurred. They were a maintenance company that turned wrenches fixing broken stuff. Periodic rifle maintenance was pushed to priority so low that it was very rarely performed. This had long been a culturally systemic flaw in many of the the US Army's combat support and very nearly all combat service support units. I carried a M16A1 a little over five years before graduating to a M1911A1, and would not want any rifle based on the M16/AR-15 gas impingement system without a forward assist.

    John
     
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    bwframe

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    Necessity depends on what you're doing with it. If it's a toy, nothing is necessary.

    For serious work, I would not consider a rifle without a FA. Even if you never have a malfunction, you use it to make sure the bolt is closed after a chamber check.

    I agree with this. I didn't think I'd use it but I found that I use it after a chamber check. Quite a bit in fact.

    Learn something every day.

    Thanks folks! :ingo:
     

    Kirk Freeman

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    Necessity depends on what you're doing with it. If it's a toy, nothing is necessary.

    For serious work, I would not consider a rifle without a FA. Even if you never have a malfunction, you use it to make sure the bolt is closed after a chamber check.

    And we are using the Exploder instead of the original forward assist because . . . ?
     

    Kirk Freeman

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    My question is, do you need a FWD assist on a basic civilian rifle. If yes, give your reasoning with practical applicable examples as to when you've needed to use it.

    What is a "basic civilian rifle"?

    Eugene Stoner already had a forward assist on the AR. See the notch in the bolt carrier where your driving finger from your support hand goes like it was magic? Right, that's the forward assist.

    Big Army wanted the external forward assist as all the cool kids had one and, when it comes to firearms, which are explosions in metal boxes in front of your faces, mashing is always the answer.

    Stoner fought them tooth and nail. He lost as Big Army signs the contracts.

    Stay off the Exploder, regardless of your occupation.
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    I would never own a rifle for serious use that depends solely on a spring to return the bolt carrier to battery with no option to mechanically assist that action if required.
    - Chris Barrett

    I feel naked without it even though I never use it.Probably could go away, but a bolt carrier cut that would be used to assist the bolt forward in an emergency may be needed.
    - Kyle Lamb

    ...you must have the ability to insure the bolt is fully closed. I have used enough weapons without forward assists—early AR's, FAL's and G3's—in a wide enough variety of conditions to tell you that, in my opinion, a fighting rifle must have the ability to insure full chambering...
    - Larry Vickers

    I think it’s a benefit. In the hot and dusty environments our guys are fighting in nowadays, things don’t always function 100-percent—the ability to get a round into a dirty chamber may save a guy’s life.
    - Rick Shuck

    ...If the weapon fails to go into battery in the middle of a shooting environment, the automatic response should be a reflexive IA [immediate action] drill of a strike on the bottom of the magazine and a vigorous cycle of the charging handle, being careful not to "ride" the bolt home...
    It doesn't hurt to have it, but it should not be relied upon in lieu of an IA drill.
    - James Jarrett

    (All quotes taken from Guns & Ammo magazine)

    US Army manual for dealing with malfunctions, both immediate action drill and remedial action. http://usacac.army.mil/sites/default/files/misc/doctrine/CDG/cdg_resources/manuals/fm/fm3_22x9.pdf

    Fortunately, I never experienced combat, but I can assure you that there are times when a soldier, or a civilian, would like to quietly chamber a cartridge. Verifying a loaded chamber in such a situation requires that the bolt be retracted sufficiently to visually confirm the chamber condition. Easing the bolt forward, via the charging handle, seldom results in total closure. Neither of these functions are possible without the FA.
    (Article in American Rifleman here: https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2016/12/14/rifleman-qa-why-have-a-forward-assist/

    (Which isn't totally true, it's possible, just not as quickly or conveniently. Go back to Lamb's comment, that's what he's referencing. A bolt you can get a purchase on with your thumb and shove home.)

    Do whatever you like. I'll stick to FA equipped guns.
     
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