Advice on surplus rifles

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  • Gingerbeardman

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    Could I get some advice on beginning to collect surplus rifles? Are there any models to avoid, and what should I learn to look for to avoid getting a junker? I can do basic gunsmithing, wood repair, etc but i don't know much about older rifles. Names I've heard are Ariska, Mosin of course, K31, and various American guns from WW1 and 2.
     

    snapping turtle

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    Invest in a time machine. The days of the interarms imports of truckloads of surplus rifles are gone. Every gun shop used to have a rack of them at nice prices. They are still around just not at 89 a rifle take your pick from the crate.

    The mauser in either stock or sporterized would be a nice start. CMP is having surplus restocked. M1’s are nice. Finding a non ground mum bring home Ariska is hard now but the ground off mum is available. Lots of those Japan made rifles did get sporterized also.

    Maybe pick a war and a country and start there in your looking. pM me I have a dealer in Illinois that still imports some fine stuff from Europe including Lugers and the like. He is picky on what he brings in but his items do move quickly and new ones flow in all the time. His prices are high.

    I would stay stay away from the mosin nag ant at anything but rock bottom price. Lots of people love them but I do not find them as a quality surplus item. I am sure I will get flamed about saying that from the garbage rod fan boys.
     

    mkgr22

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    With all due respect to your gunsmithing skills, any alterations you do to a milsurp, regardless of its condition, can reduce the value Refinishing wood or metal is a no-no.

    Likewise, buying a rifle that has been sporterized can be a black hole of money, because the correct parts and stocks to repair it can be expensive.

    There are several members of INGO that are willing to lend advice. Find something you like, but before you actually buy it get lots of details and post here.

    If it were me, just starting, I would find a Mosin Nagant model 91/30 in the $200 to $300 range, with as many matching numbers as possible, for a start. You will find the numbers on the barrel shank, the bolt, the butt plate, and the bottom of the magazine.
     

    edporch

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    -snip-
    I would stay stay away from the mosin nag ant at anything but rock bottom price. Lots of people love them but I do not find them as a quality surplus item. I am sure I will get flamed about saying that from the garbage rod fan boys.

    One exception to this though is the Finnish M39 Mosin Nagant.
    These are worth having in the collection, and are great shooting rifles.
    Many will also have been built on a pre-1898 receiver.
    The Model 1939
     

    mcapo

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    Hey! Don’t tell anyone else about the M39s. It’s the only Mosin I want and the prices are just going up!

    Depending upon your price range, if I had to own just one mil surp it would an M1 Garand or maybe an M1 Carbine if the budget is less.

    I also like the Enfields.


    Ban the fools, not the tools I say. wtburnette
     

    snapping turtle

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    Personally to me a sporterized version of a surplus gun may not be period correct to a war but period correct to the time it was either bubba’ed or gunsmithed. A kinda time machine post war era when someone might take an old surplus gun and spend 200 man hours customizing it. Sure it will never again be war era. But 1950-1960s era gunshop correct also has a niceness about them in a weird way. I have seen some wonderful work done with some of the old surplus rifles.
     

    edporch

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    Hey! Don’t tell anyone else about the M39s. It’s the only Mosin I want and the prices are just going up!

    Depending upon your price range, if I had to own just one mil surp it would an M1 Garand or maybe an M1 Carbine if the budget is less.

    I also like the Enfields.


    Ban the fools, not the tools I say. wtburnette

    Yes, the M39's are sweet.
    I have a 1968 "sneak" version, and an unissued condition "B" Barrel 1942.
    Both on pre-1898 receivers.
     

    bgcatty

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    A nice condition Mauser type rifle 24/47 or 48 would be a great mil surp rifle to start with in 8mm Mauser. Ammo readily available and these rifles were indeed “built”
     

    Mgderf

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    Forget trying to collect many Mosin Nagants.
    Millertyme already owns half of them!


    Seriously though. There are still some surplus rifles out there, and some nice ones at that.
    You just have to be in the right place at the right time.
    I have two surplus rifles that I got so cheap I actually voluntarily paid more than the asking price.
    It was a widow, who had been given very bad advice on the value of the collection her husband left. She had no idea what she had, only what family and friends told her.

    I have a 1944 Lithgow SMLE Enfield that looks as though it's never been issued. .303 British, and zero import marks.
    I also got a 7.7x58 Arisaka, with the anti-aircraft sights, and an intact, unmolested mum! No dust cover or monopod, and no import marks.
    My poor Arisaka has a beautifully shiny bore, but the stock looks like it's been through 3 world wars. It is beat half to death, but still intact. If only it could talk...
    Anyway, I got both of these rifles for less than $200 total.

    She was only asking $30 for the Arisaka, WITH AN INTACT MUM! I gave her $70 for it.
    She asked for $50 for the Enfield. I think I gave her $100.

    I ran out of there giggling, and she had the biggest grin on her face.
    This was only about 4 or 5 years ago, so...
     
    Last edited:

    kennedy759

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    I tried collecting a mil surp from every country but gave up, sold off all except my swedish mauser. My rules were number one, no sporters, two, serial number on bolt and receiver must match so no head space problems, this only applies to foreign guns, the americans did not always put the serial number on the bolt. otherwise decide on what you want to collect and buy what you can afford in the best condition.
     

    Gingerbeardman

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    Thanks a lot guys, that's a good base to start from. I'll do more investigating to see if an era/country strikes me as more interesting and focus on that. I'm not too worried about value from an investment standpoint, but i do enjoy seeing how different manufacturers accomplished the same goal or improved on an existing one.
     

    Denny347

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    Yeah, Mosins aren't worth collecting

    P5dEvoN.jpg


    It's not a huge collection but it is all mine

    TiUmQld.jpg
     

    LarryC

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    Well, Son and I've been collecting for 40+ years and have a sizable collection of Military arms, mostly rifles with a few handguns mixed in. The Swiss K31 is one that I would recommend to any starting collector. These were issued to individuals and maintained by them and are almost always in great shape. I have never seen one without a perfect bore and good looking stock. It is a great shooting rifle using the 7.5 X 55 cartridge. The Swiss surplus rounds are actually Match rounds. They are becoming more expensive lately. I have an adequate supply, so although commercial ammo is readily available I haven't shot any so can't speak to accuracy of these rounds.

    I do not agree with the Mosin not being a collectable rifle. Although not a "pretty" rifle it is probably the most dependable rifle ever made and the simplest to maintain. They were designed and built for use by Russian peasants that had never seen a firearm, to be used with minimal training in all sort of weather and other conditions, with little or no maintenance. Most are well within 2 moa of accuracy, some much better. I have several purchased at $89 ~ $99. They are still available for about $250.

    The Mauser's are also good rifles, I have some German, and some others from many other countries. The British .303 Enfield's are great bolt action rifles, I have a couple, and also an American US Enfield in 30-06.

    The Swedish Mauser's are also a great shooting rifle, the 6.5 X 55 is very flat shooting and an excellent cartridge. Mine is quite accurate.

    Though expensive today the Garand is one of my favorites, I have 2, the last purchased at the CMP. Today expect to spend north of $1k for a nice one. The other American WW-2 firearm I enjoy shooting is my M1 carbine. I purchased one several years ago for <$300. Today one like mine is Around $1K.

    I tend to stay away from WW2 Japanese rifles. Most I have seen are in poor condition, some are even unsafe to shoot. (I do not own any firearms I don't shoot). I don't like them enough to study them enough to ascertain what is a decent price. I do have several post war SKS's purchased a few years ago for $89 ~$99 and a Norinco AK. I have added a POSP Russian scope and mount and Ironwood Walnut furniture and enough other parts to be RS232 compliant. I have kept the original parts so it can be returned to the thumb hole stock/ original condition if wanted.

    I have several Handguns from the WW2 era, Russian, Yugo, Italy and other nations. Many are still in my opinion quite reasonably priced and fairly available.

    I also collect modern rifles like my Winchester lever .308, Remington 700 in .243, Marlins from the 50's ~ 70's etc. and some shotguns from Mossberg's to Browning.

    There are many different collectors of Military arms, some won't buy if the rifle isn't matching numbers (usually fairly expensive). Some just collect one country like German Mauser"s. I collect only firearms in shooting condition. I am always on the lookout for firearms that are below market prices, often from individuals, although I have found a few at Gun shows.

    I guess your first step in starting a collection is deciding what you want to end up with and how much you want to spend! Other than the handguns (both revolvers and semi-autos) the "cheap" <$100~$200 firearms have mostly disappeared. I don't know if they will return, if they do I will buy several!
     

    indiucky

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    I just got a Venezuelan FN 49 in the shop Friday and it took and takes every bit of self control I have to not keep it.....It's the first one I've ever had in here and the workmanship is amazing....Spook came in and looked at it...He's a machinist by trade and as he was admiring the machining that went into the manufacture of this gun he just kept touching it lightly and whispering "man oh man" over and over again....

    You'll love collecting surplus.....You get a vibe off of a gun that may have been at Stalingrad, D-Day, or the Somme...Enjoy them and live them as is...They deserve it...
     

    SPOOK331945

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    I just got a Venezuelan FN 49 in the shop Friday and it took and takes every bit of self control I have to not keep it.....It's the first one I've ever had in here and the workmanship is amazing....Spook came in and looked at it...He's a machinist by trade and as he was admiring the machining that went into the manufacture of this gun he just kept touching it lightly and whispering "man oh man" over and over again....

    You'll love collecting surplus.....You get a vibe off of a gun that may have been at Stalingrad, D-Day, or the Somme...Enjoy them and live them as is...They deserve it...

    Been thinking about that gun since..
     

    Tims87gn

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    Jan 8, 2013
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    Floyds Knobs
    Milsurps are addicting, and oh, did anyone mention that they breed? I began in college in 1992 with a K98 Mauser, which quickly was followed by an Enfield No4. I didn't have much money back then, but my love of history and particularly WWII era guns fueled it. Spent time after classes in a field shooting targets with friends. Then I got married, sold them and never forgot them. Luckily I rediscovered this passion after getting remarried and a chance stop at a Jeffersonville shop. Thats when I discovered the cheap (dollar-wise) Mosin Nagant. It was on again! Long story short, The Mosin is full of history since there are so many variations. Start there and research them on the web, you'll see. I personally love the Finnish Mosins. They are the best made and are still reasonable if you look around. SKS's are fun too and plenty of variations there too, plus some people selling them don't know what they actually have (shhhhhh...). Enfields can be fun and relatively cheap. My favorite by far is the M1 Garand. They are pricey, but you can find deals on shooters if you are patient. The Springfield 1903A3 is another favorite too and excellent shooters. My warning to you is to enjoy it, but realize that the collection can grow quickly. Don't break the family budget pursuing this hobby!
     
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