Buffer Tube Dilemma: Switch to Mil, or Keep it Commercial?

[D.R.SCOTT]

So I have a Rock River Arms LAR-15 Elite Operator 2 that I am in the process of tuning up. I Love the Rifle, and besides a new BCM Charging Handle and accessories like optic/light, ect, I don't really have anything I want to change expect for the stock. The Rifle just functions perfect for me, able to recreate bootcamp 500m standards out the box.

Now I want a Mission First Tactical Battle-link Minimalist stock for it, but it comes in Commercial and Mil-spec. I have a Commercial tube on there, and I am wondering if I should mod on the Mil-spec tube or not? I know some like the Mil-spec because of the connection to the military, but I just see Mill-spec as "The bare-minimum of standards possible made for the lowest cost possible" more than anything else. I have heard theory's about the cut in vs rolled threading, but have yet to see any studies/experiments to prove the point. And given that quality and materials will vary by manufacturing, I don't think there can be a definitive result.

The only plus I seem to see with Mil-spec is that there are more mod options possible for it, but since I already know what I want, are there any real benefits to switching out the tube or should I just replace the stock and be done with it? How about the difference in buffers with the different buffer-tubes, if any? I dont care about what a part is named/labeled, I just want the best functioning part.

Thanks

 

[Mgderf]

Changing just the stock will not affect function.
Changing the buffer tube/spring/buffer very well could affect function.
If you are interested in the best functioning rifle, I'd say stay with the tube that functions well for you now and just change the stock.

 

[MCgrease08]

I also don't see any real benefit of switching out the tube if there is a comparable stock that fits your current commercial tube set-up.

Unless of course you want to end up building another rifle. If you're anything like me, even a single spare part will tempt you to build a rifle around it.

 

[Vigilant]

I also don't see any real benefit of switching out the tube if there is a comparable stock that fits your current commercial tube set-up.

Unless of course you want to end up building another rifle. If you're anything like me, even a single spare part will tempt you to build a rifle around it.

Yeah, I had this roll pin once...

 

[halfmileharry]

Yeah, I had this roll pin once...

You're not nice but I understand this all too well.

 

[masterdekoy]

Yeah, I had this roll pin once...

I had a rifle built from a safety... funny thing is in the process I replaced the safety so it’s still sitting around.

If commercial works, I don’t see a reason to change it.

 

[Trigger Time]

Nope this is nothing you need to worry about. I have older bushmasters that still have and will keep their commercial receiver extensions and older rock rivers also. Even magpul makes commercial stocks to fit these. Just keep it as is and you wont miss a beat.

 

[D.R.SCOTT]

Wonderful, I had the same ideas but whenever I am unsure I never hesitate to get second opinions. And I find it refreshing that I am not the only one who will use any spare part as an excuse to build something new.

 

[seedubs1]

If you're upgrading, go A5. More reliable and smoother with the rifle spring.

You won't see anything really of benefit just swapping from commercial to .mil tubes. The only benefit from going to a .mil spec tube from a quality manufacturer is likely a higher quality part that is less likely to break. But you won't gain any performance out of it since they use the same spring/buffer.

 

[JJFII]

I will toss a couple things into the mix.

Most Commercial tubes are made via extruding aluminum. Its basically like the old play-doo machines where you plop a fist sized amount of play-doo into one side and push a lever and out pops a shape. The threads are then cut into the tube. This removed metal and causes the lowest part of the threads to be 1/2 the distance to the inside. Cut threads to not perfectly match up to rolled threads. Cut threads have a sharp top and valley while rolled threads are rounded. This is why before you tighten down some commercial tubes with the castle nut the tube wiggles slightly because there is a slight gap in the thread to thread mating.

Most (NOT ALL) Mili-spec tubes are Forged and milled Aluminum. The threads are rolled,, meaning the die-set pushes the metal together forming ridges which are the thread tops while the tube is the valley of the threads. On a Mil-spec tube you can see the threads are higher and thicker than the tube itself. This tends to be stronger because you have not cut into the tube.

I have heard stories of people snapping old commercial tubes but this was 1990s and 2000 era stuff when China was melting frying pans and making AR15 gear. They have changed their ways to a degree and I think most commercial stuff is of a higher quality than those first years of the AR15 craze.

Here is a drawing I made like 15 years ago floating around the net. It grossly over exagerates the point, but its does get the point across. I will attempt to find it.

 

[JJFII]

This is my drawing... yeah its crude and grossly exaggerated, but it gets the point across...https://www.google.com/search?tbm=i...&biw=1920&bih=920&dpr=1#imgrc=sL9ueuft9kvOYM:

 

[Bfish]

If you're upgrading, go A5. More reliable and smoother with the rifle spring.

You won't see anything really of benefit just swapping from commercial to .mil tubes. The only benefit from going to a .mil spec tube from a quality manufacturer is likely a higher quality part that is less likely to break. But you won't gain any performance out of it since they use the same spring/buffer.

I personally don't have much hands on experience with the A5 setup. I've shot one rifle with it and it was unsuppressed. I was considering trying it out with a suppressed setup but didn't know if the difference would be significant enough to mess with it. What do you think??

 

[seedubs1]

It's mostly reliability. The system uses a rifle buffer spring and is longer. So more energy is dissipated before you run the buffer out to the end of the tube. You also don't have to use a carbine spring that's wound so tight since the A5 uses a rifle spring that doesn't accelerate the BCG as fast. Basically, everything is less "herky jerky" with a rifle length spring. Whether you'll "feel" that or not depends on the rifle and how it's tuned since it's a big dynamic system and there's more going on than just a buffer setup (gas system is also at play).

As far as "feel," everything else equal and with well tuned rifles, it will make a rifle a little smoother. It is noticeable to some people, but it's not drastic. I wouldn't ever trust someone else's rifle for comparison sake on evaluating an A5 vs standard buffer setup. There's too many variables (gas system, buffer weights, etc...), and the rifle would need to be well tuned to evaluate if the A5 system smooths out a rifle enough for you to want it based on felt performance alone. For me, the increase in reliability/durability alone is worth it.

I only use A5 and rifle buffers at this point. If you're building, there's no reason to do a carbine buffer setup at this point. I won't ever own a carbine tube again.

Suppressed, you're adding pressure/dwell time. You'll benefit from an A5 system. Or.....if you want to essentially try it on the cheap, try an a1/a2 rifle tube/stock. Most of my rifles are now on rifle stocks.....and I love it. They're cheap, they work, and they're extremely robust compared to adjustable stocks. I really don't understand why they aren't more widely used in civilian rifles other than "cool factor." The main reason for an adjustable stock is to be able to shorten it when using body armor.....I'm not using body armor and an a1 fits me perfect, so no need for adjustable stocks other than for "coolness."

I personally don't have much hands on experience with the A5 setup. I've shot one rifle with it and it was unsuppressed. I was considering trying it out with a suppressed setup but didn't know if the difference would be significant enough to mess with it. What do you think??

 

[Ggreen]

I started with commercial tubes because the stocks tended to fit tighter and rattle less. I am now all mil spec because it is easier to find stocks and I don't care about a little rattle anymore. I put a commercial tube through a few rough hunting seasons with one end of the sling attached to the stock, and never had one fracture or break it. I don't see any real reliability increase for most casual users. MilSpec is just easier to source stocks for me, it's a bonus that they are marginally stronger.

 

[breakingcontact]

Out of all the mods we do to our rifles, switching to a milspec tube is so cheap. Do it.

 

[seedubs1]

Why? If it's not broken and it's from a quality supplier, there is no benefit. What you're recommending is spending money just for the sake of spending money.

Upgrade to an A5, or just leave it alone.

Out of all the mods we do to our rifles, switching to a milspec tube is so cheap. Do it.

 

[breakingcontact]

Why? If it's not broken and it's from a quality supplier, there is no benefit. What you're recommending is spending money just for the sake of spending money.

Upgrade to an A5, or just leave it alone.

Thats another way to view it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

[sig1473]

Who makes a quality commercial buffer tube?

 

[seedubs1]

I wouldn't have a problem running some of the older stuff that came out of the major manufacturers around the ban eras. Not sure about today.....I don't really look at them. But if someone made a legitimate forged 7075T6 commercial tube, I wouldn't have any qualms using it.

Problem is, most companies making a "commercial" buffer tube these days are likely using inferior materials. That is where the problem would be.

Who makes a quality commercial buffer tube?