Need shotgun identificatiion or history

[Hawkeye7br]

I have an old side by side with exposed hammers. The receiver sideplate is engraved "G. F. Pope & Co." 12 gauge. The rib is engraved, and a section of it was left blank and reads: 'FINE DAMASCUS". There is the normal metal engraving with a bird dog on the receiver. The original screws are engraved, and their slots are all oriented parallel with the barrel. It does look like the hammers are either remanufactured or they have been polished and blued. There is no manufacture date. The forend has matching serial numbers with the stamped number on the bottom of the barrels. It appears to be something from early 1900's.

Can anyone tell me where to look for info on this gun? Google only lists comments by the Pope, you know, like in the Vatican Pope who is against guns.

Thanks in advance

 

[T.Lex]

Harry Pope was a famous barrel maker back in the late 1800s. I wonder if there's any connection there.

 

[Tactically Fat]

You'll probably have to look for inspector stamps and proof marks. In the general timeframe yours was made, there were several factories in Liege, Belguim who were turning out parts and complete guns for export into the USA. Many were given a maker's mark once they arrived at the recipient's place.

I have an old Belgian-made SxS 12ga with the proof mark of "Geo. Fisher". I know it's Belgian because there are PLENTY of stamps all over that sucker that identify it. I think mine's in the 1880-1895 time frame.

So - take that sucker apart and look for the proof marks.

 

[Mgderf]

Do NOT fire modern ammo through that thing.
Damascus barrels should not be subjected to those pressures.

 

[easy]

You forgot to post pictures of your weapon sonny boy!

 

[Hawkeye7br]

You forgot to post pictures of your weapon sonny boy!

Unfortunately, I'm techno challenged, LOL.

I did find some proof marks. One of them is an oval with the letters E L G, indicates Liege?, 1811-1892, a black powder proof for rifles. Another indicates British, 1897-1923. There are some other numbers that I don't know what they represent. Tthe proof marks seem to overlap time periods. Either that or they are sized different, which I can't distinguish from each other. The butt pad appears to be a Bakelite material? it is checkered with a large diamond and has something circular in the center. It's faded and worn. Bores are good for a BP era gun.

I got this in a trade a few years ago and am looking for a history & value for it.

 

[Mgderf]

Unfortunately, I'm techno challenged, LOL.

I did find some proof marks. One of them is an oval with the letters E L G, indicates Liege?, 1811-1892, a black powder proof for rifles. Another indicates British, 1897-1923. There are some other numbers that I don't know what they represent. Tthe proof marks seem to overlap time periods. Either that or they are sized different, which I can't distinguish from each other. The butt pad appears to be a Bakelite material? it is checkered with a large diamond and has something circular in the center. It's faded and worn. Bores are good for a BP era gun.

I got this in a trade a few years ago and am looking for a history & value for it.

If you can get pictures posted, you might try asking here,

www.gunboards.com

There's a lot of knowledge about the older firearms over there.
Click on forums and ask away.

 

[Mongo59]

In the time period you are talking about the market was flooded with Belguim made guns. They were later replaced with companies like Cresent Fire Arms and the like. They would put whoever's name on them that you wanted, not that it was "specially made" to the name on the gun.
Without pictures you will need to do the detective work for yourself by looking at all the old pics of "rabbit eared" shotguns to find one similar. If we can get some pics you will have numerous other willing and able eyes helping you.
A side lock plate is a side lock plate is a side lock plate... they put specific info on them pertinent to the order. Someone orders 50 units and you stamp 50 plates.
The barrels are different, most have generic info like "a fine London twist" or in your case "fine Damascus". Makers would usually require large orders before they would personalize barrels as an incentive to have you buy more product as that was where most manufacturers reserved for their markings. Such as "WW Greener" and the like.
No matter what is scribed on the outside the government required proofs would tell the story. A gun made in Belguim and imported to England could be required by the English government to undergo it's own proofing with it's own symbols added. I say "could" because there are periods of time in their history that this was not the practice. You can hear many stories about a Brit importing a beautiful "foreign" firearm and having to send it to the proofhouse for testing only to have some clod with a hammer and a punch mark it up.
SO, you can acquire a book on proofs, do a ton of research on your own OR find someone to help you get your pics on this or another site and play on a world of knowledge floating around out there.

 

[Hawkeye7br]

Thanks to all for your responses. I'll work on getting pics. Great info!

 

[p51mustang]

The old Belgians were very cheap and used black powder pressures with a multitude of names. I have a Stevens model 235 with rabbit ear hammers that was my Grandpas and can not find info on it. it dose have 2/34 chamber 12 gauge but I will not fire it he bought it in 1911 and Pop said he used brass black powder shells when he borrowed it. Had George Perkins gauge it out and not the old 2 7/16th shell. No info on the old Stevens that is accurate.

 

[p51mustang]

Oh by the way mine is not Damascus or wire twist

 

[Tactically Fat]

The butt plate is probably horn material.

http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html

This will help with proof marks.

Seems your shotgun may very well be similar to mine: probably just some sort of shotgun imported into the USA from Belgium in the late 1800s in order to be someone's "store brand".

Keep the rust off it. Don't go crazy with cleaning it.

What I did with mine was to just disassemble as much as I could on my own and wipe/brush everything off. I also may have used some 0000 steel wool on some of the more rusty places. I knew mine wasn't anything special and not worth any real money - so I also knew that cleaning in the manner that I did wasn't really hurting anything.