The first smokeless powder rifle, Mle 1886 Lebel

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  • rob63

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    What with being snowed in yesterday, I decided to get out the camera.

    My French Mle 1886-93 Lebel. This is the very first rifle adopted by the French after they invented smokeless powder. It is unusual for a bolt-action rifle in that it has a magazine tube under the barrel, exactly like a Winchester lever action rifle. The magazine held 8 rounds of 8mm Lebel, and although it would be possible to also carry it with a round on the lifter and one in the chamber, I don't think they actually did that. It was the standard issue French rifle during the First World War.

    The rifle unofficially carries the name of Lt. Col Nicholas Lebel although he only designed the bullet, not the rifle. It was actually designed by a commission. Introduced in 1886, almost all of them have modifications that were finalized in 1893. Typical of French rifles, they don't have a safety, the lever above the trigger is a magazine cut-off.

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    The following image shows the cartridge lifter in the down position, ready to receive the next round from the magazine. It pops up when the bolt is retracted all the way to the rear. You really have to pull the bolt smartly to the rear to get the lifter to pop up, it is not a rifle that you treat gently.
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    The bolt fully to the rear, the cartridge lifter pops up so that the next round would be ready to feed.
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    This is a slightly different view that better shows the small lever that pops up along the right side of the receiver at the same time as when the lifter pops up. When you close the bolt, the bolt handle pushes this lever back down which also pushes the cartridge lifter back down to receive the next cartridge from the magazine.
    SKmL0lz.jpg


    This view shows that when you swing the button for the magazine cut-off into place, it retracts that lever that operates the cartridge lifter. Thus, making the magazine inoperable.
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    The serial number is on the barrel, not the receiver. This is typical of a lot of European nations.
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    The date of manufacture (1890) is also on the barrel.
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    It is easy to tell that the markings for the modifications done in 1893 were added at a different time than the original 1886 markings.
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    The only parts with serial numbers are the barrel, stock, bolt, and the bottom of the cartridge lifter. My rifle obviously went through a post-WWI rebuild with repairs to the stock, etc. The only matching serial numbers at this point are the barrel and stock.
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    Brad69

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    I assume the magazine cut off would be used to fire and reload with a single round and the magazine was for a intense firefight?
     

    mikem1

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    Very nice presentation i really like historical background on military rifles good job. Do you still shoot it and how hard are the rounds to get?
     

    rob63

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    I assume the magazine cut off would be used to fire and reload with a single round and the magazine was for a intense firefight?

    That is correct.

    Very nice presentation i really like historical background on military rifles good job. Do you still shoot it and how hard are the rounds to get? 

    No, I don't shoot it. Ammo is actually easier to find today than it used to be since Prvi Partizan is imported now. However, it is still very expensive; $25 or more per box of 20. I occasionally think about buying a box. However, to be honest, I don't find the experience of shooting one rifle to be much different than shooting any other rifle of similar characteristics, so I tend to stick to what is cheapest and easiest to find.

    8mmlebelPPU.1.JPG
     

    indy1919a4

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    I really like that patch in the stock. would like to know what they fixed..

    Yes those French babes like to be treated rough.. or firmly .. To get the elevator to work. Here is a French training film showing the introduction
    of the Berthiers.. and you can see that this guy on film even has troubles.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwFQH1NmtqA

    No better looking rifle for French WW I posters

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    indy1919a4

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    That is correct.



    No, I don't shoot it. Ammo is actually easier to find today than it used to be since Prvi Partizan is imported now. However, it is still very expensive; $25 or more per box of 20. I occasionally think about buying a box. However, to be honest, I don't find the experience of shooting one rifle to be much different than shooting any other rifle of similar characteristics, so I tend to stick to what is cheapest and easiest to find.

    8mmlebelPPU.1.JPG

    Oh sir you need to shoot it.. It is like no other rifle in the world. You should see Doggydaddy when he has his french guns out.. My God its a sight to see. He is screaming at the top of his lungs that the Huns will not pass. (In French of course). While the brass is just flying. Its better than TV..

    Infact I have a few extra boxes of Lebel ammo.. Say the word and we can meet and you can shoot some to back up my claim.. hopefully you will not have to speak in tongues like DD.

    Those rings in the bottom of the PPU Brass is there to help make sure that the point of the bullet does not hit the primer of the bullet ahead of it and explode when they are in the ammunition tube of your 1886..


    Long live the Republic..
     

    rob63

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    Oh sir you need to shoot it.. It is like no other rifle in the world. You should see Doggydaddy when he has his french guns out.. My God its a sight to see. He is screaming at the top of his lungs that the Huns will not pass. (In French of course). While the brass is just flying. Its better than TV..

    Infact I have a few extra boxes of Lebel ammo.. Say the word and we can meet and you can shoot some to back up my claim.. hopefully you will not have to speak in tongues like DD.

    Those rings in the bottom of the PPU Brass is there to help make sure that the point of the bullet does not hit the primer of the bullet ahead of it and explode when they are in the ammunition tube of your 1886..


    Long live the Republic..

    I get the feeling that you and Doggydaddy might like to shoot my rifle. :): Maybe we can do that when the weather improves a little bit. I recently found an old box of Norma 6.5 Jap at a gun show for a really good price and have a Type 38 Arisaka I want to shoot as well.

    Thanks for the WWI posters. I have a t-shirt that I got from CafePress that has a WWI Russian poster on it, I'm going to have to do the same with one of those French posters.
     

    indy1919a4

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    I get the feeling that you and Doggydaddy might like to shoot my rifle. :): Maybe we can do that when the weather improves a little bit. I recently found an old box of Norma 6.5 Jap at a gun show for a really good price and have a Type 38 Arisaka I want to shoot as well.

    Thanks for the WWI posters. I have a t-shirt that I got from CafePress that has a WWI Russian poster on it, I'm going to have to do the same with one of those French posters.

    We will have a French shoot.. Beaucoup Le Boom Boom Oui Oui .. Wait till DD makes you slow march back to the cars singing Kempi Blanc its the highlight of the day
     
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    Wanderer

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    I used to have one of those a few years back. Ended up trading it for a Type 38 carbine as I wasn't totally satisfied with its finish (some of the bolt parts were blued when I bought it, and although I de-blued them I realized I'd prefer to have a rifle with a bolt that had never been blued in the first place) and figured I'd get one more to my liking at some point in the future. I've recently been considering doing so, since the PPU 8mm Lebel ammo isn't terribly difficult to find online these days. Pic is of my old Lebel along with my MAS-49.
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    DoggyDaddy

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    I get the feeling that you and Doggydaddy might like to shoot my rifle. :): Maybe we can do that when the weather improves a little bit. I recently found an old box of Norma 6.5 Jap at a gun show for a really good price and have a Type 38 Arisaka I want to shoot as well.

    Thanks for the WWI posters. I have a t-shirt that I got from CafePress that has a WWI Russian poster on it, I'm going to have to do the same with one of those French posters.

    I reload for both calibers and I also have a Type 38. We could do a Franco-Japanese shoot! And don't listen to a thing that indy1919a4 says about me. :): I don't have a Lebel rifle (yet) but I do have 4 Berthiers.
     
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