Need advice again on building another AR 15.....

[Dustycoyote]

When I first found this forum and posted a request for advice on buying my first two AR 15s, one of the first and most common comments I got back was that "These guns tend to breed....". Well, I understand that now. I'm looking at building a third gun for various reasons and would like to ask for some help.


I've got a good idea of what I want to build and wanted to pass my expected parts list by everyone on the forum. The guidance I got that led me to my first two guns was spot-on and awesome, and I wanted to just get thoughts and recommendations again before I start collecting parts to put together a third.

I don't know that I could have done better than the direction I got here to buy the LWRC DI and build out the Sionics upper. I love both guns and all the research I've done since then has confirmed my opinion of the quality of both guns.

For anyone that wasn't on that thread my two existing guns are

• LWRC DI (LWRC grip) (with a VOrtex 2,5x10 PST optic)
• Sionics complete 16" upper, 1x8 twist with BCM grip and extra wide stock, Spikes lower with Sionics lower parts kit. (with a VOrtex 1x4 PST Optic)

I don't have any special purpose for this third gun I just want one to keep it in a different location than the current two (some planned land for camping). I'm thinking of this third gun as kind of a repeat of the other two. Just a high quality all around gun. BUT, if anyone has any different ideas or thoughts to focus on for this third gun I'm open to them. I'm not made of money but want a good gun and, as with the first two, I would like to get as good a value as I can. If there are options that save money without hurting the quality of the rifle I'm all for that.

One thing that I've decided is that I definitely want to build this gun (just the lower, using a complete upper I think). I don't want to buy a factory complete gun. I just enjoyed putting together the Sionics last time.

I may even machine out my own lower, I haven't decided yet. If anyone has any thoughts, experience, or guidance on finishing an 80% lower, I'd really love to hear it. This is an attractive option to me.

I've been looking at the Sionics uppers since I'm still fairly new and the LWRC and Sionics are the only brands I have experience with. The LWRC uppers are expensive and I don't personally know enough of other brands to know if there are others at the same price as the Sionics that would be as good.
I originally thought that I'd like to try doing an 18" gun this time just to get experience with a different set-up, and to try out something different than the two 16"er's I already have. I'd really still like to do an 18" gun but the Sionics 18" Overwatch uppper is a stainless steel barrel and I think I'd like to stay with Moly. It is also 100.00 more expensive.

So here's my tentative parts list so far....

• Lower - TBD

• Upper - Sionics Patrol III 16" mid-length gas system with BCG (Sionics M Lok rail)
  • Whatever upper I get I'd like it to be a 1x7 or 1x8

• Lower parts kit and trigger - Sionics ambi lower parts kit with enhanced mil-spec trigger
  • ( I like the idea of the NP3 coated mil-spec trigger but would go to another if it weren't too expensive. I don' want one that is too light though.)

• Stock - Fab Defense GL Core
  • (just read some reviews that say it's a really good stock...)

• Grip - TBD
  • I really like the rubberized LWRC grip I have. If someone can recommend a good (inexpensive) grip that is rubberized I'd appreciate it.

• Buffer tube Kit - TBD
  • Would appreciate help here. With all my reading it seems like I'm kind of OK with any respected brand buffer tube as long as it's mil spec sized??

• Sling - TBD
  • Open to recommendations. want a good two point sling with easy adjustment.

• Optic - I'll probably just keep looking to see what pops up at AAoptics. I really like my Vortexes.
  • Alan told me last time to go with 2 different types of optics so to ensure that I can use the guns however I want to as I get more into shooting them. that's how I ended up with the 2 scopes that I have now. for this third one, I think I'd like to do another of the 1x adjustable Vortexes like my current 1x4 (the new Vortexes are now 1x6) I really like that scope and the ability to use it as a red dot, which honestly is how I use it most of the time. My issue is that the new 1x6 is really expensive, even as a refurb from Alan. Will need to save up for this.....

Also, a couple of ammo questions.....

If anyone can recommend some good and cheap lead-free ammo I would appreciate it. there is some county land right by my house that they allow shooting at but they require lead-free ammo. I found some federal XM556NT1 lead-free frangible that are well priced but the bullets are 50gr and I'm assuming that they aren't going to play well with my 1x7 and 1x8 barrels. Any suggestions??


When I bought the two guns I stocked up on a bunch of M193 and M855 ammo because ther're inexpensive. Since then I've found the Frontier rounds that Hornady just re-introduced and have started buing those in different weights to try out. They seem like they'd be really good multi-use rounds that I could even hunt with but are cheap enough to use for target practice. Anyone have any feedback on these rounds or maybe others that they might recommend that I look to stock?

 

[Hohn]

There's lead-free and then there's cheap. Don't worry about 50gr playing with 1:7 twist, it's fine. That said, 8 twist is versatile enough for anything a home gamer would generally used (mag length 77s).

The BCM and ALG improved mil-spec triggers are excellent and affordable. The Larue is excellent but maybe a bit light for what you prefer. LPKs are generally the same. Pick one that's reputable (CMMG, Geissele, etc).

For the bare lower, pick whatever you like the appearance of. There's basically cheap mil spec (might not be as nicely machined), premium mil-spec, and enhanced. Enhanced lowers have things like larger mag releases, some ambi enhancements, integral trigger guards, etc. Premium mil spec is still pretty cheap.

Stocks, take your pick. So many great options out there from Magpul, B5, BCM, Fab, etc. If this is a SHTF gun, you might consider fixed stock and rifle buffer.

If you like a rubber grip, Ergo is popular. I prefer the harder plastic ones like my BCMs (won't degrade from oil or UV, etc).

Receiver extension: BCM Intermediate,basically VLTOR A5 at lower cost. Works with regular mil spec carbine stocks. Start with the lightest A5H0 buffer for reliability. I rec to use the Tubb flat wire spring for smoothness and reliability.

Slings: Magpul, Blue Force Vickers, or Savvy Sniper. I chose magpul because it was available. Savvy Sniper is probably best IMO and $$ accordingly.


Optics: If you like your 1x- Vortexes, you can keep your 1X vortexes. Solid choices and overwhelmingly the most popular 1x variable under $500 for a reason. I would ask this: if you use it mostly as a red dot, why not get a red dot? You have multiple rifles, you have the luxury of a little specialization/optimization. You could do either a 1x Prism optic or a RDS that is comparable in price to the variable.

Specialization gives you a bit better performance at a particular thing. All season tires are versatile, for example, but pretty much are awful at everything compared to specialty summer, winter, racing etc tires. But most of us use them because that versatility is what we need. If we could afford dedicated summer and winter vehicles, we'd have much better performance for each. You have multiple rifles, might be able to specialize a bit.

Hope this helps.

 

[seedubs1]

I remember you. I'm the one that strongly recommended you get the Sionics. Solid rifle, and glad you're liking it. They make some of the nicest out there.

Here's the current best deal for a solid high quality build:
https://www.larue.com/category/uppers/upper-kits/

$800 and comes with everything you need except a lower. You can buy the lower from Larue as well if you want a full matching rifle. These are pretty dang unbeatable. VERY high quality. This will be on par or nicer than your LWRC or Sionics. Comes with a SUPER NICE 2 stage trigger. Their barrels are very nice, and the upper/handguard interface is flat out awesome.

If you want to upgrade it, I use a rifle buffer tube and A1 stock, or go with a VLTOR A5 and any adjustable stock you want (the Larue stock it comes with is actually super nice). I also added an adjustable gas block to mine to further smooth it out and tune it. You can sell the Larue parts (gas block and stock assy) and end up about net even.

Go ahead and build the whole thing. People are scared of assembling uppers.....but they're honestly easier than a lower. Just use a torque wrench for the barrel nut.

For the lower, if I were you, I'd get the lower from Larue if I had the extra cash. If I wanted to be budget minded, get an Aero lower for under $50 when they're on sale. They OEM for Spikes, BCM, etc... and are well regarded as good to go.

 

[seedubs1]

Ammo: I'm using the Frontier ammo too. Good and cheap. They use Hornady bullets, which have some of the better tolerances, and are manufactured by Lake city. About as good of quality as you can possibly get for sub $300 cases. I'll be buying more.

Scopes: If you're wanting to stay budget minded but quality, I am sticking to Philippine manufactured or Japanese from the LOW factory (LOW if possible, their scopes are nicer than anything coming out of the Philippines). That means typically Vortex PST, Bushnell Elite Tac, or Sig Tango 6 right now since those seem easy to find for $6-800. The Bushnell Elite Tac and Sig Tango 6 are nicer than the Vortex PST's and are manufactured at LOW Japan. PST's are made in the Philippines.

 

[Dustycoyote]

Nice to hear from you again Seedubs. I really am loving that Sionics you recommended.

Awesome info again, thanks to both of you.
I had been really thinking about going with that ALG trigger that Hohn mentioned (because of the universal good reviews for it) but that Larue deal gets me a 2 stage and an 18" barrel for the same price as a 16. And the whole Larue package comes out at about even with me piecing together parts around the Sionics upper. The Larue lets me build a bit more specialized shooters gun, per Hohn's advice, at the same price. I think I may just jump on it.

Also, thanks for the info on the unfinished lowers too. I didn't know that there are different types or grades. If you have any more detailed info on them I'd love to hear it.

Thanks again!

 

[Dustycoyote]

It looks like the Larue kit gives the option to go with their stealth (heavy) barrel or the PredatAR (Light) barrel. Any recommendations? Again, this is for all around usage so no specific focus.

My first thought is to get the heavier barrel. I can't imagine that its that much heavier to lug around or to shoot from a standing position (but could be wrong of course) and if I'm getting the 18" I might as well get the heavy barrel for best accuracy to make this one my Long distance gun??

 

[seedubs1]

It looks like the Larue kit gives the option to go with their stealth (heavy) barrel or the PredatAR (Light) barrel. Any recommendations? Again, this is for all around usage so no specific focus.

My first thought is to get the heavier barrel. I can't imagine that its that much heavier to lug around or to shoot from a standing position (but could be wrong of course) and if I'm getting the 18" I might as well get the heavy barrel for best accuracy to make this one my Long distance gun??

I have the Stealth barreled version. My dad has a PredatAR. The Stealth is quite a bit heavier. I do not like shooting it offhand (standing with no support). It does hold really nice groups, but I really only use that rifle for conditions where I'm able to support the rifle. The PredatAR is a heck of a lot nicer if you're going to be hiking with it or shooting offhand.

Both will hold really nice groups in my experience if you feed it quality ammo. The PredatAR starts having the groups open up quicker since it's a lighter weight barrel. Just have to let it cool off a bit more.

Get whichever suits your needs.

I'd also take the Larue MBT trigger all day every day over an ACT. It'll quickly make you want to upgrade your other two rifles. It is VERY nice. Compares well to my Geissele 2 stage (not the NM version).

 

[Dustycoyote]

Just went back and changed my order from Larue to the PredatAR.
Thanks again for the insight.

Per the Optics question, what is "LOW" in Japan BTW?

 

[seedubs1]

Just went back and changed my order from Larue to the PredatAR.
Thanks again for the insight.

Per the Optics question, what is "LOW" in Japan BTW?

Light Optics Works is a build house in Japan that builds a lot of high end scopes. Some fly under the radar and can be had pretty cheap (ex.- Bushnell Elite And Sig Tango 6).