Help me decide; AR10 or BA

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  • Eagle21

    Plinker
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    7   0   0
    Sep 23, 2017
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    Hamilton Co. / Marion Co.
    [FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]I have private access to a range that maxes out about 650 yards..and really want to build a midrange/long range gun capable of shooting accurately at that distance. [/FONT][/FONT]
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    [FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]Budget $1500 plus Glass.. likely go Vortex Diamondback Tactical FFP, considered the MK5 by Leupold but can’t justify it for a 50 round a month/600 round annual gun. [/FONT][/FONT]
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    [FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]I’m stuck between building/assembling an AR10(Aero revivers, likely a Ballstic Advantage barrel, Geissele trigger, JP bolt(Fulton cattier) which puts me right about $1500 or getting a Bergara Premier LRP (right at $1500 with discount) [/FONT][/FONT]
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    [FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]I would likely chamber the AR10 in .308 and the Bergara in 6.5... [/FONT][/FONT]
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    [FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]What’s leading me to AR10 is longevity of barrel especially with budget ammo.(likely start hand-loading shortly after owning a larger caliber) [/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]However I know it will not be as accurate as a BA gun in regards to its semi action and requires much better fundamentals- which I think could be of benefit in gaining/building a better foundation of skills in regards to longer range shooting, so I don’t necessarily see that as a negative. [/FONT][/FONT]
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    [FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]At 600 yards I really don’t see the benefit of the ballistic advantage to the 6.5 however as my intro to mid range shooting I’m afraid I’ll enjoy it so much and want to reach out to 1000 in due time, leaving me with buyers remorse having chosen the .308. [/FONT][/FONT]
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    [FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]Help me decide, what would you choose and why?[/FONT][/FONT]
     

    TangoFoxtrot

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    0   0   0
    Jul 22, 2018
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    United states
    Personally I would go 6.5 grendel on the AR15 platform... why? You may ask:)
    1)ar15 is standardized
    2)big bore ar if you dont really do your homework, your going to have problems.
    3)6.5 grendel firmly has its roots in bench rest
    4)6.5 grendel is versatile, anything from small varmints to deer, hogs.
    5)super sonic 1000yards and further
    6)600 yard shots are chip shots with a good precision grendel
    7) you can probably come in under budget building a precision AR grendel..

    Just some of my opinions, others may disagree:)

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
     

    TangoFoxtrot

    Expert
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    0   0   0
    Jul 22, 2018
    1,352
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    United states
    [FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]I have private access to a range that maxes out about 650 yards..and really want to build a midrange/long range gun capable of shooting accurately at that distance. [/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp]
    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]Budget $1500 plus Glass.. likely go Vortex Diamondback Tactical FFP, considered the MK5 by Leupold but can’t justify it for a 50 round a month/600 round annual gun. [/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp]
    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]I’m stuck between building/assembling an AR10(Aero revivers, likely a Ballstic Advantage barrel, Geissele trigger, JP bolt(Fulton cattier) which puts me right about $1500 or getting a Bergara Premier LRP (right at $1500 with discount) [/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp]
    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]I would likely chamber the AR10 in .308 and the Bergara in 6.5... [/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp]
    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]What’s leading me to AR10 is longevity of barrel especially with budget ammo.(likely start hand-loading shortly after owning a larger caliber) [/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]However I know it will not be as accurate as a BA gun in regards to its semi action and requires much better fundamentals- which I think could be of benefit in gaining/building a better foundation of skills in regards to longer range shooting, so I don’t necessarily see that as a negative. [/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp]
    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]At 600 yards I really don’t see the benefit of the ballistic advantage to the 6.5 however as my intro to mid range shooting I’m afraid I’ll enjoy it so much and want to reach out to 1000 in due time, leaving me with buyers remorse having chosen the .308. [/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp]
    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]Help me decide, what would you choose and why?[/FONT][/FONT]
    And if the grendel isnt tempting, I would go with 6.5 creedmoor simply because it can give you everything .308 can give and more.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
     

    1nderbeard

    Master
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    38   0   0
    Apr 3, 2017
    2,529
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    Hendricks County
    Not to throw a wrench in what you'd planned, but if you're handloading consider also the grandaddy 30-06. I found a good deal on a BA gun and started loading last year. The variety of projectiles and powder loads in a 30-06 is impressive, and it's the same caliber as .308.

    You'll definitely be at the top of your budget with an AR 10 platform, and could get a very nice BA for that price range. For the money I'd probably stick with BA on the first long range gun.

    One final thing: accuracy comes before speed. At 500 plus yards will you be able to miss fast enough to beat a smooth BA's efficiency with an AR10? Personally I wouldn't.
    Either way would be ok with me though :)
     

    NyleRN

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    28   0   0
    Dec 14, 2013
    3,834
    113
    Scottsburg
    [FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]I have private access to a range that maxes out about 650 yards..and really want to build a midrange/long range gun capable of shooting accurately at that distance. [/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp]
    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]Budget $1500 plus Glass.. likely go Vortex Diamondback Tactical FFP, considered the MK5 by Leupold but can’t justify it for a 50 round a month/600 round annual gun. [/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp]
    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]I’m stuck between building/assembling an AR10(Aero revivers, likely a Ballstic Advantage barrel, Geissele trigger, JP bolt(Fulton cattier) which puts me right about $1500 or getting a Bergara Premier LRP (right at $1500 with discount) [/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp]
    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]I would likely chamber the AR10 in .308 and the Bergara in 6.5... [/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp]
    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]What’s leading me to AR10 is longevity of barrel especially with budget ammo.(likely start hand-loading shortly after owning a larger caliber) [/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]However I know it will not be as accurate as a BA gun in regards to its semi action and requires much better fundamentals- which I think could be of benefit in gaining/building a better foundation of skills in regards to longer range shooting, so I don’t necessarily see that as a negative. [/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp]
    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]At 600 yards I really don’t see the benefit of the ballistic advantage to the 6.5 however as my intro to mid range shooting I’m afraid I’ll enjoy it so much and want to reach out to 1000 in due time, leaving me with buyers remorse having chosen the .308. [/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp]
    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]Help me decide, what would you choose and why?[/FONT][/FONT]

    I might argue as to why you're spending $1500 on a rifle to shoot 50 rds a month if you're using that same rationale to buy the $300 optic instead of the better one. ARs in 308 have a harsh recoil IMO. It's most certainly a different impulse than a bolt gun. I'd say it has something to do with that huge heavy reciprocating BCG. Instead, buy something that will shoot lights out for cheaper. Bergara has the HMR that's less expensive and will shoot very accurately and precise. So would a $600 Savage 110 tactical. The least expensive optic I like to recommend is one of Bushnells ERS FFP scopes with G2/G3 reticle. It's LOW made, quality glass for cost, and it tracks. Can be had used for $700-$1000 depending on specific model
     

    seedubs1

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    24   0   0
    Jan 17, 2013
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    $1500 rifle.....$300 optic.

    Spend less on the gun and more on the glass. If you have a total budget of $1800, get some nice Japanese glass. Your budget allows for LOW made scopes.
     

    TangoFoxtrot

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    0   0   0
    Jul 22, 2018
    1,352
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    United states
    $1500 rifle.....$300 optic.

    Spend less on the gun and more on the glass. If you have a total budget of $1800, get some nice Japanese glass.
    You can get some good refurb optics for $300-400.. natchezss had ( not sure if its over) but some very good deals on refurbished optics and the leupold, vortex came with their normal life time warranties.

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    NyleRN

    Master
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    28   0   0
    Dec 14, 2013
    3,834
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    Scottsburg
    You can get some good refurb optics for $300-400.. natchezss had ( not sure if its over) but some very good deals on refurbished optics and the leupold, vortex came with their normal life time warranties.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

    In OPs situation a $400 optic is not the best he can get. $300-$400 optics have their marketplace. They're either for folks that can't afford $1200+ optics or they're for those that have been fooled into thinking they're just as good as the $1200 scope. I say OP would be most content with a $600 savage 110 tactical and a $1200 Bushnell DMR II 3.5-21. And it'll shoot great
     

    TangoFoxtrot

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    0   0   0
    Jul 22, 2018
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    United states
    In OPs situation a $400 optic is not the best he can get. $300-$400 optics have their marketplace. They're either for folks that can't afford $1200+ optics or they're for those that have been fooled into thinking they're just as good as the $1200 scope. I say OP would be most content with a $600 savage 110 tactical and a $1200 Bushnell DMR II 3.5-21. And it'll shoot great
    Some of these are $700-900 optics for $300-400. I picked up leupold for $1400 that was normally $2400 and they still have the lifetime warranties:) I called to ask what the blems on them were and they said just scuffs or scratches on the tubes.

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    masterdekoy

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    56   0   0
    Feb 12, 2013
    854
    28
    Columbus
    Op, 308 is plenty capable to 1000 yards. It may not be as easy as 6.5 creedmore but it will get the job done. More about what’s behind the scope.
     

    BIGE7.62

    Sharpshooter
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    Jul 29, 2010
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    The Hills of Brown
    I've had a couple Ar10s in 308 even a Socom 16 with an EBR stock set up .Had a couple bolt guns in 308 one in 6.5 creedmore also .
    They will all reach 1k yrds
    The 6.5 has the ballistic advantage to reach 1k easier .
    *GOOD GLASS* ,lots of practice and ammo will get you to 1k with either set up .
    So it's really up to you .
    I'm sure some one here would let you try something out
     

    Hawkeye7br

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    1   0   0
    Jul 9, 2015
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    Terre Haute
    I totally get where the OP is going here, and I love it. One gun, keep it casual, work up loads and distance, has a budget. Reminds me of the ground hog hunters of yesteryear, and they had fun doing it.
    Consider a Savage F class gun. Has switch (or aftermarket) barrel capability so you can start with 6.5 and change to 308, 6BR, or whatever.
    If you already have a donor gun, add a custom barrel. Apache machine does great work.
    I would add money for glass even if it means reducing the rifle budget. With glass, you get what you pay for, but good glass is worth more on the user end. It sounds like (OP) is leaning toward a bolt gun.
     

    JeepHammer

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    Aug 2, 2018
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    SW Indiana
    Any common bolt .30 cal will smack the 600-650 yard targets reliably and cut your rifle budget by 2/3.
    This makes things MUCH less complicated...
    There have been several 'Varmint' and 'Police' heavy barreled bolt rifles made that were 1,000 yard rifles right out of the box, and several people have proven it, including David Tubb.
    David Tubb has taken several out of the box rifles and won long range high power matches with them including 1,000 yard matches.

    This also allows you a budget for a shooting instructor that will get you well past the 650 yard mark.
    Training will help you with fundamentals, and without fundamentals you are wasting time & money.
    'Hit & Miss' experimentation on your own will cost you many times what an instructor will.

    I would recommend 7.62 NATO/.308 simply because there is so much published about the round and every rifle type is chambered in .308 so take your pick.
    The ammo is inexpensive, load data is everywhere and mostly accurate, and everyone in the world makes ammo/components for 7.62 NATO/.308 Cal.
    Military shooters can de-link machine gun ammo and shoot accurately at 650 yards, and the round is quite effective out past 800 yards.
    More than 800 yards you will need 'Premium' rounds of some kind, but the rifle/round is capable of 1,200 yards or more.

    With optics, as much as you can afford. A fine optic is a lifetime purchase.
    Leupold is 100% reliable, 100% of the time, and last I checked, has a 100% lifetime warranty.
    You simply can't go wrong with a Leupold. I have Leupold that are 25+ years old and shoot 4 corners like they were brand new, and trust me, I'm not easy on optics.

    Burris makes a rugged, accurate & reliable optic that overlooked quite often.
    It's not Ziess, Schmidt & Bender, Leupold, it's also not the price of named optics, and yet still reliable.
    I have 5 or 6 Burris optics on hunting rifles and they have never let me down.

    ----------

    For a semi-auto, I shoot SR25 because that's what I trained on and often carried in the military.
    It's a $2,500 minimum for an SR25, but that's the price for battle proven and ready to take on all pretenders.

    SR25 was my first choice over M14/M21, which is a battle tank of a rifle, but recoil pulled me off target & the support gear for a full system was heavier in weight.

    ---------

    As to expectations, in training we fired 2,000 to 2,500 recorded, well aimed shots a week, with constant supervision correcting our fundamentals & mistakes.
    If you expect to fire 50 rounds a week and build skills, that might be an unreasonable expectation.
     

    Rouzer

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    Mar 24, 2019
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    3
    Madison
    More than likely, depending on your skills, You’ll achieve more precision accuracy with the BA and have less flyers.

    I love bolt action rifles, but I have just renewed my love for AR 15’s as I just purchased a second one and have it running with very nice accuracy.

    For $500 more you can get Seekins Havoc.
    Browning Hells Canyon long range is an excellent choice I believe they are one of the few quality built production rifles on the shelves today. I would definitely recommend a bigger budget for more quality optics. Browning barreled actions are fit to the stock very well. It is one of the few rifles on the racks at Cabela’s or bass pro that has its barrel centered in the groove of the stock. I handled a $1600 custom Winchester model 70 with a maple stock and it’s barrel was so off center it was touching the stock. The barrel being centered or not may not affect anything, but it does display pride in craftsmanship.

    I think Bergara is good choice, but research Seekins Havoc if you like; its same kind of rifle.

    The Good thing about AR platform is that if a herd of zombies surround your house you will be better equipped with it versus a long range bolt action rifle. Lol

    If you can find it in you to buy a $1000 scope; although many people would recommend nightforce SHV, i handled a new Zeiss V4 and the optics are amazing. Zeiss reticles are the blackest on the market too. And you get 102 minutes of adjustment same as nightforce SHV. And they are laser etched where many lower-priced scopes are still using wire reticles. I own 6 zeiss scopes. I am sold on Zeiss.

    You could find them on clearance when they are phasing out an older model and bringing a new one in. Because the V4 is new, the conquest HD5 is on clearance. I paid $975 for my 3-15x42 rapid z 800 HD5 when it first came out, it was on Amazon a couple weeks ago for $699. In February I noticed Natchez shooter supply had the 2-10x42 HD5 for $550 and 10% off; I don’t even need a scope at this point but I bought one just to put back. At $500 shipped to the door it was a steal for a superior scope assembled in Germany. with the HD5 you won’t have as much elevation adjustment but they have rapid Z reticles that are awesome. The zeiss rapid z ballistic calculator puts you on at every hash mark with any factory load. Out to 800 yards.
    31a205dd739d9efe3b91139a023ebc4c.jpg


    Zeiss tracking is perfect and their click adjustments are very strong and crisp.

    By the way, for those interested in a 2-10x 42 zeiss HD5 Natchez is still showing in stock last model plex reticle. All the Rapid Z is sold out. $550; when they don’t have a percentage off promotion they usually at least have free shipping. I settled for the plex. It will make a great scope for a future AR platform. I like to shoot coyotes at night time and the Plex reticles are easy to see on an illuminated target at night.





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    Last edited:

    roscott

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    Second the above regarding a Grendel AR. My Ballistic Advantage-barreled AR is the most accurate gun I own.

    If you’re going to step up to a short action, go with a 6.5 Creedmoor and get the most out of your rifle. Bucking the wind is the big game changer. Any monkey can dial up a knob for distance, but wind calls are dark sorcery and every bit helps in that area.

    Also you will not regret quality glass. You can’t shoot what you can’t see.
     

    roscott

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    Also crisp reliable turrets are vital, and they rarely come cheap. Nothing is more frustrating than mushy clicks and unreliable tracking.
     
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