Light primer strikes on Savage 11VT

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  • Notalentbum

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    Jun 12, 2013
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    I’ve got a 4 year old Savage model 11VT. Early on it was no problem but last year or so I’m getting a lot of FTF and it appears to be really light primer strikes. The end of the firing pin looks good and it looks like it is sticking out plenty far enough to hit deep enough.
    The ammo I’m using is Hornady 75g bthp 8026. No idea if that is loaded with really hard primers or not but it works in my buddy’s Savage. His will fire the rounds that FTF in my gun. I’m supposed to be shooting at a match this Saturday. Not sure what to do.
    I was thinking about pulling the bolt apart but I’ve never had one apart. I did find out there is a detent ball under the extractor. Fortunately I have more the right size at work!

    Suggestions???

    Thanks, Matt
     

    M67

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    Pop the bolt apart and make sure the firing pin spring isn't lathered in gunked up grease

    It's not that hard. The nut on the back can get stiff so you might need to get a socket wrench with a bit attachment to get some real leverage on it

    You can do it cocked or uncocked, but doing it uncocked is easier

    I'm sure there's a giggity in there somewhere
     

    Disposable Heart

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    Primers in that ammo aren't hard. As M67 said, clean the heck out of that firing pin and FP channel. Compressed air and solvent kind of cleaning, and almost to barely any lube when reassembling (don't want it to clog back up).
     

    Notalentbum

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    Disassembled, cleaned and reassembled my bolt.
    Stopped over at Parabellum this morning for a function test. No problem with some junk Tula but my precision Hornady ammo fails to fire 4 out of 5 rounds.
    Not sure what to do at this point. I’ve considered grinding the rear face of the bolt head to allow for deeper primer hits but not sure if there is a possible detriment to doing this. However, the firing pin sticks out of the bolt face much further than it is punching into the primers so this may gain me nothing.

    Ideas?
    Thanks, Matt
     

    M67

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    Disassembled, cleaned and reassembled my bolt.
    Stopped over at Parabellum this morning for a function test. No problem with some junk Tula but my precision Hornady ammo fails to fire 4 out of 5 rounds.
    Not sure what to do at this point. I’ve considered grinding the rear face of the bolt head to allow for deeper primer hits but not sure if there is a possible detriment to doing this. However, the firing pin sticks out of the bolt face much further than it is punching into the primers so this may gain me nothing.

    Ideas?
    Thanks, Matt

    DON'T grind on the bolt face

    Have a gunsmith check the headspace on it, or send it off to savage. Really you did all you could in regards to the light strikes, let someone else fix it at this point
     

    JHB

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    Don't modify anything.
    Replace the firing pin spring if the firing pin slides through it's travel smoothly. If that doesn't work send it back to Savage or a gun smith.
     

    natdscott

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    I’ve got a 4 year old Savage model 11VT. Early on it was no problem...

    How many rounds, or bolt cycles ago was "early on"? You may have a spring problem. Factory components are almost never of the quality materials you can get aftermarket, and they do not always last as long.

    Have you checked firing pin compression length yet?

    How many rounds are on the rifle?

    What do the primers of the fired rounds look like coming out of the gun? Are they protruding? Any migration?

    The end of the firing pin looks...like it is sticking out plenty far enough to hit deep enough.

    Nope. "looks like" is not a good enough measure of this. You need to depth mic it, caliper it, or use a protrusion gauge if you have one.

    You have to work the problem, and the first step, after cleaning and completely re-lubricating the bolt group, is gonna be to check protrusion.

    You're looking for 0.035-0.045" range. More is not better, as it is effectively reducing impact force by a corresponding reduction in firing pin fall distance.

    It is probably NOT a protrusion problem though.

    I was thinking about pulling the bolt apart but I’ve never had one apart.

    Get over that. I'm not saying you need to go buy a set of cup-tipped punches and start disassembling classic S&W revolvers on the dining room table, but you need to be able to fully strip your bolt.

    I did find out there is a detent ball under the extractor.

    hehehe... fun!

    If so it might be set a little lite, try turning up the pull weight a little

    This is not a revolver. Trigger engagement and weight of pull do not directly influence FP fall in this firearm design, and thus do not impact ignition (pun intended).

    Primers in that ammo aren't hard.

    No, not 'hard' per se. That being said though, small primers are indeed more rigid than large due to the same thickness of cup across a smaller diameter face, and will therefore show ignition issues much earlier than the same equivalent ammo in a Large Rifle design.

    Really you did all you could in regards to the light strikes,..

    It's HIS rifle, and it's worked for a long time, so it's not Savage's problem, and HE needs to learn to fix it. (Or he wouldn't be here asking how.)

    You're right to suggest that he never grind the bolt, but he hasn't done nearly all that he can.

    -Nate


     
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    Notalentbum

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    How many rounds, or bolt cycles ago was "early on"? You may have a spring problem. Factory components are almost never of the quality materials you can get aftermarket, and they do not always last as long.

    Have you checked firing pin compression length yet?
    Not sure what you mean here.

    How many rounds are on the rifle?
    I’m not one for records but I’d guess 300 plus or minus 50.

    What do the primers of the fired rounds look like coming out of the gun? Are they protruding? Any migration?
    I’ve had some serious questions on this. Several shells have shown pressure signs with extrusion and I’ve had quite a few actually have punched a hole through the primer. Pressure signs have shown both in my Savage and my AR. As best I recall, never punched a hole through a primer in the AR.



    Nope. "looks like" is not a good enough measure of this. You need to depth mic it, caliper it, or use a protrusion gauge if you have one.

    You have to work the problem, and the first step, after cleaning and completely re-lubricating the bolt group, is gonna be to check protrusion.
    Currently checks .053”

    You're looking for 0.035-0.045" range. More is not better, as it is effectively reducing impact force by a corresponding reduction in firing pin fall distance.

    It is probably NOT a protrusion problem though.



    Get over that. I'm not saying you need to go buy a set of cup-tipped punches and start disassembling classic S&W revolvers on the dining room table, but you need to be able to fully strip your bolt.
    No big deal, simple disassembly/reassembly!



    hehehe... fun!



    This is not a revolver. Trigger engagement and weight of pull do not directly influence FP fall in this firearm design, and thus do not impact ignition (pun intended).



    No, not 'hard' per se. That being said though, small primers are indeed more rigid than large due to the same thickness of cup across a smaller diameter face, and will therefore show ignition issues much earlier than the same equivalent ammo in a Large Rifle design.



    It's HIS rifle, and it's worked for a long time, so it's not Savage's problem, and HE needs to learn to fix it. (Or he wouldn't be here asking how.)

    You're right to suggest that he never grind the bolt, but he hasn't done nearly all that he can.

    -Nate



    My responses are in bold above. For the record, I’m a toolmaker where precision is a given. If I had decided grinding the rear face of the bolt was needed, it wasn’t going to be a hack job with a Dremel! Clarification, the rear face I considered grinding was the very rear of the bolt head where the large diameter of the firing pin hits the back of the bolt allowing the pin to extend deeper into the primer.
    Disassembly is no big deal once you know how it is built. I am not sure where to go from here. I have another Savage 11VT in .308. I’ve thought about swapping springs and firing pins and see if anything changes.

    Matt
     

    natdscott

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    My responses are in bold above. For the record, I’m a toolmaker where precision is a given. If I had decided grinding the rear face of the bolt was needed, it wasn’t going to be a hack job with a Dremel! Clarification, the rear face I considered grinding was the very rear of the bolt head where the large diameter of the firing pin hits the back of the bolt allowing the pin to extend deeper into the primer.
    Disassembly is no big deal once you know how it is built. I am not sure where to go from here. I have another Savage 11VT in .308. I’ve thought about swapping springs and firing pins and see if anything changes.

    Matt

    Matt, d'you think we could juat chat on the phone sometime this weekend?

    Despite the thick irony of how much I DO..I hate typing.
     

    M67

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    It's HIS rifle, and it's worked for a long time, so it's not Savage's problem, and HE needs to learn to fix it. (Or he wouldn't be here asking how.)

    You're right to suggest that he never grind the bolt, but he hasn't done nearly all that he can.

    -Nate



    4 years for a gun isn't a long time. Say the firing pin sitting is okay but the headspace is blown already or the barrel nut came semi loose that shouldn't be his problem, it's savages for not assembling the rifle correctly to begin with

    That being said savage usually has short chambers so the odds of that happening would be slim but not impossible

    It has a warranty, use it

    To the OP, apologies I was picturing a Dremel or a rigged mill system when you mentioned grinding. Seen a lot of home fixes from Non machinists


    Still. If the bolt goes into battery easy. Plenty of protrusion, no binding or gummed up stuff. I'd send it off and have it looked at
     
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