Winchester 1897 Stiff Action

[comm2679]

Hello,

I recently acquired a 1908 manufactured Winchester model 1897 12ga shotgun. I’m not very familiar with this model and, in fact, the one I have is actually the first one I’ve ever held in my hands.

The action seems to be very tight on it. It takes considerably more force to run the slide rearward and forward when compared to something like a Remington 870. The previous owner said that when he got the shotgun it was almost stuck closed and he had to work it free by disassembling and cleaning/lubing the bolt and carrier.

Since I can’t look at it and say for sure whether everything was re-assembled correctly, and since it is 112 years old, I am considering taking it to a gunsmith who knows what he’s looking at to check everything out and make sure it is safe to shoot and functions properly.

My questions are 1) Can anyone recommend a good gunsmith who would know his way around this shotgun? And 2) Does anyone have any idea why the action is so tight?

Thanks in advance!

 

[T.Lex]

I inherited a 1930 vintage 1897 with the opposite problem - everything seemed too loose. I'd love to recommend the 'smith who cleaned it up and confirmed it was good to go, but he's retired.

Personally, the guys at ZRTS in Noblesville have done other, more modern, smithing for me and I've been very pleased. I'd at least take it to them to have a look at it. My sense is that they'd tell you whether they could help before charging you anything.

 

[churchmouse]

I recently acquired an older Winchester that had sat in a closet in the garage for years. Everything about the action was way to stiff.

Some diligent cleaning and lube took care of this.

Oils will evaporate over time and leave a sticky film. Dismantle it as you can and use a good gun scrubber on all the bits. Apply a good gun oil of your choice to "ALL" moving parts and reassemble it. Even money it is just fine.

 

[comm2679]

I’ll check them out, thanks for the recommendation! They’re pretty close to where I live.

 

[comm2679]

I recently acquired an older Winchester that had sat in a closet in the garage for years. Everything about the action was way to stiff.

Some diligent cleaning and lube took care of this.

Oils will evaporate over time and leave a sticky film. Dismantle it as you can and use a good gun scrubber on all the bits. Apply a good gun oil of your choice to "ALL" moving parts and reassemble it. Even money it is just fine.

Glad to hear yours came out alright. I’ll clean and oil as much as I can and see how it feels afterwards.

 

[churchmouse]

Glad to hear yours came out alright. I’ll clean and oil as much as I can and see how it feels afterwards.

I have over time put together some ways to get oils/lube deeper into lever/pump guns without completely stripping them down. Makes this task a lot easier.

 

[Leadeye]

Old guns with old steel need more lube and attention. CM has the right idea, so if you can't find a smith and your gun is a take down model like most are, remove the front and stock and then soak the receiver section is diesel or kerosene. This will usually loosen everything up after which you re assemble and lube back up. Personally on old guns I use Ballistol. You can find good UTube videos on how to take down the Model 97, it's not a hard process. Best of luck, and keep that old iron shooting!

 

[churchmouse]

Old guns with old steel need more lube and attention. CM has the right idea, so if you can't find a smith and your gun is a take down model like most are, remove the front and stock and then soak the receiver section is diesel or kerosene. This will usually loosen everything up after which you re assemble and lube back up. Personally on old guns I use Ballistol. You can find good UTube videos on how to take down the Model 97, it's not a hard process. Best of luck, and keep that old iron shooting!

Never thought of the deep soak but then I do not work on these old pieces at anywhere near your level of involvement.

 

[Leadeye]

I'm lazy, it's an easy, cheap, start to any old gun project.

You've probably got a parts washer with Stoddard solvent in it, that would work better than anything.

 

[churchmouse]

I'm lazy, it's an easy, cheap, start to any old gun project.

You've probably got a parts washer with Stoddard solvent in it, that would work better than anything.

Yes I do. And I just changed out the solvent....

 

[comm2679]

Old guns with old steel need more lube and attention. CM has the right idea, so if you can't find a smith and your gun is a take down model like most are, remove the front and stock and then soak the receiver section is diesel or kerosene. This will usually loosen everything up after which you re assemble and lube back up. Personally on old guns I use Ballistol. You can find good UTube videos on how to take down the Model 97, it's not a hard process. Best of luck, and keep that old iron shooting!

I hadn’t considered a soak, great idea. It’s got a small amount of dark blueing left, but the majority of the receiver section has turned brown (and it looks great to me). Will diesel fuel harm the finish at all?

 

[Alpo]

I've worked on more than 100 of these guns for cowboy action shooters. Unfortunately, I'm retired and don't want to mess with 97's any more. Here is a list of CAS clubs in Indiana that will know who the current 97 tech guru is.

https://www.sassnet.com/clubs/Clubs_list.php?state=Indiana

It takes a high degree of skill to properly work on 97's. This isn't a firearm where swapping parts is the answer.....and that assumes you can find replacement parts.

 

[comm2679]

I've worked on more than 100 of these guns for cowboy action shooters. Unfortunately, I'm retired and don't want to mess with 97's any more. Here is a list of CAS clubs in Indiana that will know who the current 97 tech guru is.

https://www.sassnet.com/clubs/Clubs_list.php?state=Indiana

It takes a high degree of skill to properly work on 97's. This isn't a firearm where swapping parts is the answer.....and that assumes you can find replacement parts.

Thank you very much! I’ll contact a club nearby and see what I can turn up.

 

[Leadeye]

I hadn’t considered a soak, great idea. It’s got a small amount of dark blueing left, but the majority of the receiver section has turned brown (and it looks great to me). Will diesel fuel harm the finish at all?

Take the stock off, diesel will probably melt the old linseed oil finish on the wood and make it smell like diesel for a long time. It has no effect on metal bluing or patina but will do a pretty good job on old solidified grease.You just want the metal receiver soaking in the solvent. Sometimes a good soak clean and relubing an old gun is all it really needs. Here's an old Colt Lightning that mainly just needed a good cleaning but was locked up solid when I bought it.

 

[Dead Duck]

Winchester 1897 Stiff Action

Give it a break.
If you stop pumping, it should soften up.

 

[Expat]

https://www.facebook.com/LJs-Gunsmithing-LLC-905211642854418/

this guy did some work on my 97’s. I think he even had to fabricate a part for one.

 

[Mongo59]

There is one screw in there you shouldn't mess with, not knowing what the previous owner "took apart for cleaning" I would advise you to have a pro go over it.

 

[KJW]

The Old Gun Doctor - Complete Firearms Restoration

I acquired an old 97 from my father and took it to this guy for restoration. I'm sure he's qualified to address whatever needs your gun has. I was very happy with his work.

 

[russc2542]

check that the magazine tube doesn't have any dents or misshapen spots. One of mine, that was the problem. One of the guys in our club has some experience with them and some machining tools helped with it.

 

[comm2679]

I’ve thought about how I want to approach this and decided I’m going to disassemble the shotgun completely and perform a “conservation”. This involves boiling the metal parts in water for 45 minutes to convert any red oxide (rust) into black oxide, and also to cook off old gummed up oil. Next, all metal parts will be given a pass with a carding wheel to remove loose oxide. Finally, all the parts will be soaked in kerosene for about two hours to drive out all the water and harden the black oxide finish.

This whole process apparently will not remove any existing finish from the shotgun and the goal of it is to stop old firearms from decaying without re-finishing and without removing any of the remaining finish. I got the idea from Mark Novak’s YouTube series on C&Rsenal called “Anvil”. If you have never watched one of Mark’s videos, you should. He is a wealth of knowledge and has an entertaining way of presenting information. Here is a link to his video on the subject in case anyone is interested. I need to order the carding wheel before I begin, but I’ll try to post some before and after pictures of the process.