M1917 American Enfield ?

[99zhuggerz99]

I have been eyeing a new milsurp bolt. Having the debate of a M1903 v M1917.
I understand the ‘03 has such a following. However it is well documented that the 17 was the main rifle of the AEF during WW1.
I do not have very much experience in either. I like the idea of the 03-A3 sights. I also like the history of any and all 1917.
So what do you think? What should I hunt for and what should I look for? (Seems to be too much info on the ‘03, but very little on the 1917).
CMP has had some if willing to make the drive; which I am.

 

[Gaterboy]

One of each. Seriously I have had both and enjoyed shooting both. Like the feel of the 1903 little better. Both shoot well 03 little better but barrel was in better shape.

 

[Gaterboy]

Also difference between 03 and 03a3 stock

 

[rob63]

If you want a US issued WWI rifle, and you really like the sight on the 03A3, then I think you should go with the M1917 Enfield. That way you combine the service history with the type of rear sight you prefer.

Whatever decision you make, take your time and learn the nuances of the markings before you worry about buying anything. These rifles went through rebuild programs so very few of them are still as originally manufactured. However, there is a big difference between one that was rebuilt by the US Army and one rebuilt by Bubba, so it is worth the time to learn about them. Plus, you never know, you might find a unicorn if you know what you are looking for.

Use the search function here on INGO and on other forums, there are a lot of threads about these rifles. If you can come up with specific questions, myself and others will be happy to assist.

 

[Mongo59]

With research one will eventually find that no 'Enfield' was ever made in the USA. This is a false concept that outright upsets the Brits and irritates the Yankee collectors as well.

The Brits don't even like the P 14's to be called 'Enfield' since 'Enfield' is a place of manufacture rather than a designation.

The scene from Star Trek where the Klingon's say, "You haven't really heard Shakespeare until you have heard it in it's native Klingon..." comes to mind.

That aside, the 1917 was the rifle Sgt York won his Medal of Honor. He refers to it in his letters home as his 'English rifle'. It offers a longer sight radius than the Springfield which isn't hard to do since the '03's rear sight is almost half way down the barrel.

I have owned and shot them both and in my honest opinion... you need both.

 

[Mongo59]

...then start on the WWII models...

 

[Old Bear]

Most US troops in WW1 were issued the M1917. I have an Eddystone M1917 (and a P14 in .303) and they are absolutely my favorite milsurp bolt guns. Fast, accurate and very mild recoil compared to the '03. The M1917's are a little harder to find since they were not produced nearly as long as the 1903.

I will eventually get another 1903 (had one years ago and let it go), but if I could have only one, it would be my M1917. I would encourage you to research both and handle both.

 

[Gaterboy]

Where were the Savage No 4 Enfields made? The ones marked U.S. property.

 

[rob63]

Where were the Savage No 4 Enfields made? The ones marked U.S. property.

Savage.

That was during WWII though and is a very different rifle.

 

[Old Bear]

Where were the Savage No 4 Enfields made? The ones marked U.S. property.

At the J. Stevens Arms Company River Plant in Chicopee, Massachusetts between 1941 and 1944.

 

[99zhuggerz99]

I subjected the title as broad as possible. I get the 1917 is simply an ‘enfield pattern’.

The ‘both’ response is my norm. I have been infected by that bug a few times. However, I must stay the course for the time being of only one.
The CMP has been the equivalent of a gateway. First the Garand then the M1911/A1 lottery...now the bolt gun.

Alure of the 1903 is simply reverence, I mean it’s a 1903. However the use and limited time the 1917 was made and what it faced, coupled with the story of how it came to be...that’s enough for me. But knowing that I shoot every gun I have, I do not want to crawl too deep into the worm hole.

 

[Gaterboy]

Thanks

 

[Mongo59]

Let me tell you what is worse than getting too deep now. What it will cost you later.

This bug will not go away, it only gets worse.

I can remember when $350 could get you the nicest M1 Garand the CMP had to offer. Now you have to out bid all those other people infected with the bug.

Just look and see what they cost 10 years ago compared to what they cost now. They aren't making anymore.

The 1917's are all 100+ years old. You can call it a weapon, a tool, art or history. Any one of those headings justify the investment, but these have ALL of those going for it.

I don't see them decreasing in value, so if you are willing to be a good steward of one of these historical weapons I believe you will be well rewarded beyond the pleasure of ownership and the joy of firing...

 

[MongooseLaw]

I've owned both and enjoyed shooting them, but the 1917 just felt better. I liked the weight of it and the looks, along with it being the main rifle of the AEF in WW1.

 

[TheJoker]

The CMP South Store has been putting out some 1917s recently. That's where I got mine many moons ago.

 

[2in1evtime]

I have read articles that the forces during ww1 asked that no winchester made 1917's be sent over as to some kind of issue. I haven't found out the reason why, can anyone here enlighten me as i have 2 in my collection as of now??

 

[rob63]

I have read articles that the forces during ww1 asked that no winchester made 1917's be sent over as to some kind of issue. I haven't found out the reason why, can anyone here enlighten me as i have 2 in my collection as of now??

The early Winchester rifles did not have interchangeable parts. That's the short answer, it had to do with them beginning production before the design of the US version had been finalized.

What are the markings on your rifles? If they say Winchester instead of WRA, and a barrel date later than 1-18, they should have interchangeable parts.

 

[Mongo59]

The later Winchesters is what the Brits used for their sniper rifles. They went through all the variety of sniper configurations in the early 20's and decided on the Winnies and sold off all the rest to the rebels across the pond.

 

[Mongo59]

I checked and the CMP south store usually has 7-12 1917's on the rack and they restock the shelves from time to time.

Last week they even had a chromed model that sold for $335 to give you an idea...

 

[hammer24]

I have read articles that the forces during ww1 asked that no winchester made 1917's be sent over as to some kind of issue. I haven't found out the reason why, can anyone here enlighten me as i have 2 in my collection as of now??

Winchester jumped the gun and started production before a standard was set. Remington along with their subsidiary Eddystone standardized on a set of drawings and began cranking out a ton of rifles with standardized parts. This left Winchester out in the cold because many of their parts were not compatible with the standard tolerances that were set.
Winchester rifles were a field armorers nightmare, because if something went wrong with them, there were no readily available replacement parts.