Lots of questions on the 1903 surplus rifles

[teddy12b]

I don't have a lot of details on my Great Grandpa's military history other than Ohio Infantry in WWI. My Grandpa was Marine Corp Infantry WWII and I know is that he was on Midway Island for a long time. I'm sure my Great Grandfather would have had a 1903 of some sort in WWI, and I'm not sure if my Grandpa would have likely had one of those left overs for WWII because I don't think everyone got an M1 Garand especially in the Marines.

With that in mind, I've been kicking around the idea of getting my hands on a 1903 of some kind as a shooter. I'm not a collector, and I do like the stretch the legs on whatever I buy. What kind of 1903 should I look at for a shooter and are there some variants that are better than the others? At some point this will be a history lesson for the next generation when I show them what our family members have carried to war in the past.

Thoughts?

 

[Hop]

Online auctions will be your best bet to snag a nice looking shooter / collector gun. Estate auctions have some stellar looking guns.

I'm partial to the 1903A3 version myself and was lucky enough to have picked one off the rack at the CMP store in Ohio back in 2006. Those CMP 1903 & 1903A3 guns, sorry to say, are long gone.
There's a chance that your grandfather was issued a 1917 too though. You might want to look at the history of that rifle as well.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I got my 1903 from Indiucky's shop. It was a CMP gun with the paperwork and still packed in cosmoline. I didn't think I'd ever find a CMP rifle. Btw, there is a lever marked ON and OFF. It is a magazine cut-off so you can fire it single shot, keeping the magazine full when you need more firepower in a shorter amount of time. I had never seen one before. I took an immense amount of grief from Indiucky and Indy1919a4 for thinking it was a "second safety".

I'd like to get an 03-A3 someday because I like the peep sights better than the regular irons on the 1903.

 

[Alpo]

I took my first elk with a 30-40 Krag in military configuration in Colorado. I really like the Krag's and 03's.

 

[Expat]

There is an old guy that goes to some of the gun shows up here that sells them. I bought an 03-A3 at the last Nappanee show. He had a couple of 03s as well and Garands. His are usually pretty nice so he isn't giving them away, but if you want a nice one.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I took my first elk with a 30-40 Krag in military configuration in Colorado. I really like the Krag's and 03's.

I've got two Krags that have been cut down ("sporterized") to carbine length. I like the action on the Krags even better than Enfields, with 1903's (and Mausers - same thing) following close behind.

 

[Darthur]

I saw lots of them at the National Gunday Show in Louisville last year when I went. Sporterized, shooters, collectors.

 

[led4thehed2]

M1903, M1903A3, and M1917 rifles are still available from the CMP in limited quantities. They cannot be ordered by mail, and must be purchased in-person from their stores in Ohio and Alabama. The Alabama store has a much more steady stream of these guns coming in. The Ohio store has not had any since November.

Prices are about $650 to $750. My M1903 had a VERY dirty bore and a loose front sight, but after a thorough cleaning and some Gorilla Glue I now have a perfectly serviceable rifle that I love to shoot.

The M1903 has a ladder-style sight mounted just forward of the receiver that can be adjusted up and down for elevation and side to side for windage. It features a very small peep that can be quite accurate, but may be harder to use
, depending on shooting conditions. They tend to have straight ('S' style) or semi-pistol grip ('Scant') stocks. Those with full pistol grip ('C') stocks are more rare and pricier.

The M1903A3 and M1917 rifles have receiver-mounted windage and elevation adjustable peep sights similar to the M1. The M1917 is a bit longer and heavier, but holds 6 in the magazine to the M1903's 5.

Another thing to consider, if you are a heavy shooter, is rebarreling. With the rear sights on the M1903 mounted on the barrel, removing the barrel takes the sights with it, so more time and money would be invested in re-installing sights when re-barreling.

I suppose the best variant will depend on your preferences in sights and stocks.

 

[red_zr24x4]

There is an old guy that goes to some of the gun shows up here that sells them. I bought an 03-A3 at the last Nappanee show. He had a couple of 03s as well and Garands. His are usually pretty nice so he isn't giving them away, but if you want a nice one.

Was it Steve? He has the best M1's and 03's. I've seen his personal collection and I'd say it rivals Leadeye's

 

[Expat]

Was it Steve? He has the best M1's and 03's. I've seen his personal collection and I'd say it rivals Leadeye's

Yes it was.

 

[rob63]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the low number receiver issue with the '03 considering that he specifically says he wants a shooter and likes to "stretch the legs" on whatever he buys.

Yes, I know, it's a can of worms.

Just for the benefit of the OP, be aware that at one time the Ordnance Department declared Springfield made '03's below serial number 800,000 and Rock Island made rifles below 285,507 to be unsafe due to excessive brittleness. They were then supposed to destroy all such receivers, but considering how many are still around today they obviously did not.

During WWII, they rescinded that policy and re-barreled and used said rifles.

There are lots of arguments online by modern collectors about this whole issue, was it an overreaction or even a cover-up? Was it all caused by faulty ammunition?

My point is not that those rifles are, in fact, unsafe. I don't know. I just think you should be aware of the issue. If I were looking for a shooter grade '03, one that I wanted to stretch the legs of, I would make it a point to obtain a high-number example that was made after the switch to nickel steel, just to be on the safe side.

 

[teddy12b]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the low number receiver issue with the '03 considering that he specifically says he wants a shooter and likes to "stretch the legs" on whatever he buys.

Yes, I know, it's a can of worms.

Just for the benefit of the OP, be aware that at one time the Ordnance Department declared Springfield made '03's below serial number 800,000 and Rock Island made rifles below 285,507 to be unsafe due to excessive brittleness. They were then supposed to destroy all such receivers, but considering how many are still around today they obviously did not.

During WWII, they rescinded that policy and re-barreled and used said rifles.

There are lots of arguments online by modern collectors about this whole issue, was it an overreaction or even a cover-up? Was it all caused by faulty ammunition?

My point is not that those rifles are, in fact, unsafe. I don't know. I just think you should be aware of the issue. If I were looking for a shooter grade '03, one that I wanted to stretch the legs of, I would make it a point to obtain a high-number example that was made after the switch to nickel steel, just to be on the safe side.

I appreciate that heads up on the serial numbers. That was the farthest thing from my mind, but reading through your comments I think I've heard of it before. Certainly wasn't on my mind though at all.

 

[teddy12b]

I stumbled across this rifle recently https://www.classicfirearms.com/us-model-1903a3-rifle-5rd-bo-30-06/ and that's probably what made me think of a 1903. I'd really rather not drop $1,300 on one though just for plinking and show and tell. I remember Aimsurplus used to have some of the Gibbs reproductions that were all refinished and good shooting rifle from every review I read and those were in the $900 range. Even that is a bit salty for what I'd like one for.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I stumbled across this rifle recently https://www.classicfirearms.com/us-model-1903a3-rifle-5rd-bo-30-06/ and that's probably what made me think of a 1903. I'd really rather not drop $1,300 on one though just for plinking and show and tell. I remember Aimsurplus used to have some of the Gibbs reproductions that were all refinished and good shooting rifle from every review I read and those were in the $900 range. Even that is a bit salty for what I'd like one for.

Yeah, no. That price is insane. Keep your eyes open and you should be able to find a decent shooter (original) for half that or less. You could always set up a search on Gunbroker and that way you'll get an email every time one gets posted up for sale.

 

[jinks]

One more thing to watch for is reclaimed drill rifles. The drill rifles were welded in various places to prevent the removal of parts. Typically drill rifles have the barrel and receiver welded together on the bottom and the stock must be removed to see the weld. Many of the restored drill rifles have the welds removed and the welded area cleaned up. The parkerizing is usually a different color where the repairs were made.

http://www.odcmp.org/202/drill_inc.asp

 

[teddy12b]

Yeah, no. That price is insane. Keep your eyes open and you should be able to find a decent shooter (original) for half that or less. You could always set up a search on Gunbroker and that way you'll get an email every time one gets posted up for sale.

I thought $1,300 was more than a little optimistic myself.

 

[teddy12b]

One more thing to watch for is reclaimed drill rifles. The drill rifles were welded in various places to prevent the removal of parts. Typically drill rifles have the barrel and receiver welded together on the bottom and the stock must be removed to see the weld. Many of the restored drill rifles have the welds removed and the welded area cleaned up. The parkerizing is usually a different color where the repairs were made.

http://www.odcmp.org/202/drill_inc.asp

I'd read that about the reworked drill rifles and I think Gibbs was doing that. So long as the gun is safe and shoots I'm open to anything.

 

[teddy12b]

I was looking at a 1903 that says US Remington 1903 then a 3,XXX,XXX serial number. Did they really get into the 3 millions on serial numbers or was this a factory rebuild or what? The serial number lookup websites aren't showing many facts on that. Just curious.

 

[hammer24]

I was looking at a 1903 that says US Remington 1903 then a 3,XXX,XXX serial number. Did they really get into the 3 millions on serial numbers or was this a factory rebuild or what? The serial number lookup websites aren't showing many facts on that. Just curious.

Super interesting article with tons of info on the Remington 1903. https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2016/6/8/the-remington-m1903-rifles/

 

[jinks]

I was looking at a 1903 that says US Remington 1903 then a 3,XXX,XXX serial number. Did they really get into the 3 millions on serial numbers or was this a factory rebuild or what? The serial number lookup websites aren't showing many facts on that. Just curious.

Initial Remington 1903 production started at 3 million.