Article — Foreign Rifles of the Spanish Republic: 1936-1939

[RaoulHayduke]

If it's alright to share, this is an article that I wrote and published on surplused.com, a website hosted by the C&Rsenal team with aim of curating community-driven firearms research content. I've seen some posts before on INGO about surplus firearms with Spanish Civil War provenance; I found the discussions of the complex histories of these weapons fascinating and devoted a good portion of my time to researching them in preparation for this article. Since I've learned so much here and on Gunboards, I'd appreciate it if you could give my article a read, and feel free to post your Spanish Civil War rifles in this thread, whether they be 1893 or 1916 Mausers, Mosin-Nagants, or any other of the wide variety of weapons I cover in my article.

Thank you. Hope you find it interesting.

https://surplused.com/index.php/2020/06/15/foreign-rifles-of-the-spanish-republic-1936-1939/

 

[indy1919a4]

Nice read.. I am 1/2 through and need to take this apart a little closer... Awesome photos... Some of the photos are worth a story in itself..

Many thanks and awesome read... And a nice website.. Moocho thanks



Just to share back here are some wonderful stories of Canada during the SCW.. The Nice part of some of the later links of this Canadian special you get to hear from some of the actual members of the Canadian Volunteers. Where as there is alot of politics in the interviews but that is the SCW and nice that these guys voices were saved before they were lost to time.

[video=youtube;qD07K7-SsMY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD07K7-SsMY[/video]











[video=youtube;mLriAGvimVk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLriAGvimVk[/video]










[video=youtube;G_N8qjsJpfg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_N8qjsJpfg[/video]











[video=youtube;AO1gF1fkAt8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO1gF1fkAt8[/video]














[video=youtube;7NiFJykInnY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NiFJykInnY[/video]











[video=youtube;pHcxD6kIIv0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHcxD6kIIv0[/video]

 

[SEIndSAM]

[h=2]Article — Foreign Rifles of the Spanish Republic: 1936-1939[/h]

 

[RaoulHayduke]

Nice read.. I am 1/2 through and need to take this apart a little closer... Awesome photos... Some of the photos are worth a story in itself..

Many thanks and awesome read... And a nice website.. Moocho thanks



Just to share back here are some wonderful stories of Canada during the SCW.. The Nice part of some of the later links of this Canadian special you get to hear from some of the actual members of the Canadian Volunteers. Where as there is alot of politics in the interviews but that is the SCW and nice that these guys voices were saved before they were lost to time.

Thanks! And man, you don't have to tell me about the politics. I tried to sidestep them as much as possible for my article, but the Spanish Civil War remains such a contentious event — my observation is that it tends to be romanticized by both right and left-wing commentators with little respect for its tragedies. Civil wars are always ugly things, but ugly in interesting ways at times. Specifically for this article, I wanted to compile/expand on the purchase and issue of arms by the Republic, since this information is out there, but not really in one place. It's in the cards to write a similar article focusing on the arms of the Nationalists — for example, apparently enough Standard Modell rifles ended up in their inventory postwar from German sources that it spurned a shift from standardization on 7x57 Mausers to 7.92 ones with the M43.

That research is probably a ways away, since I've been getting notes drawn up for another article analyzing primary source American wartime and civilian postwar appraisals of captured/bringback Japanese rifles.

 

[rob63]

Very interesting article, thanks! I have had a few SCW rifles pass through my hands over the years.

 

[RaoulHayduke]

Very interesting article, thanks! I have had a few SCW rifles pass through my hands over the years.

Believe it or not, I currently only have one! It's a sadly refinished '36 Tula that falls in the known serial range of Spanish imports, but doesn't feature an MP8 or MADE IN USSR mark. My research for this article did lead me to realize that there were some rifles I let pass me by that were more than likely cherry (well, as cherry as you can get for an SCW weapon) examples of Republican-issued firearms.

 

[indy1919a4]

. Civil wars are always ugly things.....

for example, apparently enough Standard Modell rifles ended up in their inventory postwar from German sources that it spurned a shift from standardization on 7x57 Mausers to 7.92 ones with the M43.

.

Yeah and the parties involved remember .. I E in the American Civil war you had Songs like "Im a good old rebel" Being put to paper in the 1890s.. A wonderful movie that shows this for the Spanish Civil War is "Behold a pale Horse" with Gregory Peck.

Many Time SCW rifles are more art then science to tell if they were.

Some of the SCW rifles went from 8mm mauser to 7mm mauser..

I.E Here is a 1918 double date gew 98 that was part of the Weimar republic.

You can see on the side this went through the "secret" Nazi rear sight change, then this was sent to Fascist forces in spain. We would not know this except that the barrel must have been shot out or damaged and the Spanish rebarreled this to 7mm after the war. I had heard that the Spanish Navy used 7mm.

 

[RaoulHayduke]

Yeah and the parties involved remember .. I E in the American Civil war you had Songs like "Im a good old rebel" Being put to paper in the 1890s.. A wonderful movie that shows this for the Spanish Civil War is "Behold a pale Horse" with Gregory Peck.

Many Time SCW rifles are more art then science to tell if they were.

Some of the SCW rifles went from 8mm mauser to 7mm mauser..

I.E Here is a 1918 double date gew 98 that was part of the Weimar republic.

You can see on the side this went through the "secret" Nazi rear sight change, then this was sent to Fascist forces in spain. We would not know this except that the barrel must have been shot out or damaged and the Spanish rebarreled this to 7mm after the war. I had heard that the Spanish Navy used 7mm.


View attachment 88700

That's fascinating! I handled a similar Gew.98m at auction last December, but it was still in 7.92. As these rifles were inexpensive imports once upon a time, SCW rifles in as-imported condition are few since many were lost to sporter attrition. Yours looks fantastic.

 

[chevyguy]

I have currently in my hand a book by Bill Harriman titled: The Mosin-Nagant Rifle. On page 38 it talks about Mosins being used in the Spanish Civil War. According to him the Mosin was the most supplied rifle to the republicans. There book references George Orwell ( yes that George Orwell) saying that the Mosins were sent to Spain by the USSR, but that they were manufactured in America.

The paragraph as follows: Orwell was partially right, in that the M 1891 rifles were from surplus stock built by Remington and New England Westinghouse for thr Tsarist Government during World War One. After WWI, some 5,000 of these rifles were sold to Mexico; and because the Mexican Government sympathized with the Republican side in the Spanish Civil War, it sent its rifles and cartridges to Spain. Examples of these US made Mosin-Nagants were undoubtedly what were seen by Orwell in Barcelona during the Telephone Exchange siege of May 1937, but he confuses them with brand new M1891/30 rifles bought from the Soviet Union. (Despite having signed the Non-intervention Agreement in August 1936, the Soviet Union continued to sell large quantities of military equipment to the Republicans.)

 

[chevyguy]

Also according to the same book the Abraham Lincoln Battalion was armed with Mosins, some claimed they were from Mexico others from the USSR.

 

[rob63]

Believe it or not, I currently only have one! It's a sadly refinished '36 Tula that falls in the known serial range of Spanish imports, but doesn't feature an MP8 or MADE IN USSR mark. My research for this article did lead me to realize that there were some rifles I let pass me by that were more than likely cherry (well, as cherry as you can get for an SCW weapon) examples of Republican-issued firearms.

What are the known serial ranges? I still have a 1936 Izhevsk that does not have any markings that indicate it was SCW.

 

[indy1919a4]

It is more art then a serial number range, other factors to look at.. The sling rings, the cleaning rod etc

But here is a list of serial numbers that helps a little..

https://scwmosin.weebly.com/the-scw-mosin-nagant-serial-number-database.html

 

[RaoulHayduke]

What are the known serial ranges? I still have a 1936 Izhevsk that does not have any markings that indicate it was SCW.

Ditto what indy1919a4 said. You can really only go off of features of the rifle, though occasionally you can estimate if you notice clusters in the observed serial numbers on verified rifles. That's how I was able to verify mine.

 

[RaoulHayduke]

I have currently in my hand a book by Bill Harriman titled: The Mosin-Nagant Rifle. On page 38 it talks about Mosins being used in the Spanish Civil War. According to him the Mosin was the most supplied rifle to the republicans. There book references George Orwell ( yes that George Orwell) saying that the Mosins were sent to Spain by the USSR, but that they were manufactured in America.

The paragraph as follows: Orwell was partially right, in that the M 1891 rifles were from surplus stock built by Remington and New England Westinghouse for thr Tsarist Government during World War One. After WWI, some 5,000 of these rifles were sold to Mexico; and because the Mexican Government sympathized with the Republican side in the Spanish Civil War, it sent its rifles and cartridges to Spain. Examples of these US made Mosin-Nagants were undoubtedly what were seen by Orwell in Barcelona during the Telephone Exchange siege of May 1937, but he confuses them with brand new M1891/30 rifles bought from the Soviet Union. (Despite having signed the Non-intervention Agreement in August 1936, the Soviet Union continued to sell large quantities of military equipment to the Republicans.)

Chevyguy, I expand a bit on Harriman's discussion of these Mexican rifles. In addition to the rifles verified by word-of-mouth testimony, there's also evidence of American-manufactured Mosins coming to Spain from Mexico via the manifest of the steamer Mar Cantabrico, captured at sea by the Nationalists.

 

[chevyguy]

So both sides had them, of course probably not in as many numbers as the Republicans. Also from the book of the Republican forces that had Mosins it was he International Brigades that had em. Mainly due to logistics and due to the main army was armed with 8mm Mausers.

 

[indy1919a4]

Question RaoulHayduke what is the origin of that photo of the Polish WZ.29 with the crest.. I tell you that really is a mindblower. Makes you wonder who scrubbed those and when.

 

[rob63]

It is more art then a serial number range, other factors to look at.. The sling rings, the cleaning rod etc

But here is a list of serial numbers that helps a little..

https://scwmosin.weebly.com/the-scw-mosin-nagant-serial-number-database.html

Ditto what indy1919a4 said. You can really only go off of features of the rifle, though occasionally you can estimate if you notice clusters in the observed serial numbers on verified rifles. That's how I was able to verify mine.

Thanks, I guess I misunderstood the previous post and thought when you mentioned a known serial number range it was something more like a documented list of guns that were known to be shipped as opposed to a list of observed guns with particular features. The rifle I still have falls within those ranges, but it doesn't have any of the known features. The other rifles I used to have had the wire sling rings and one had a Spanish made ramrod as well. I don't recall either having any markings. Unfortunately, I don't seem to have kept any photos of them.

 

[RaoulHayduke]

Question RaoulHayduke what is the origin of that photo of the Polish WZ.29 with the crest.. I tell you that really is a mindblower. Makes you wonder who scrubbed those and when.

That picture caused a sh!tstorm when I posted it on Gunboards. Some people just would not believe that was a Spanish Civil War photo. In addition, pretty much all of the primary sources I cited in the article mentioned Polish rifles as having crests. I wonder if the observed "A" cartouche denotes a postwar rebuild/inventory program — allegedly, some Spanish M43 Mausers were built on Polish wz.29 receivers, but I can't find any confirmation of that. Only speculating, but it's possible they were scrubbed in preparation for either refurbishment or total reconfiguration. Until the Spanish Defense Ministry gets around to digitizing and making publicly available their post-Civil War documentation, we can't know for sure.

The link to the gallery is here, courtesy of the National Library of Spain: Visualización detallada - Biblioteca Digital Hispánica (BDH)

 

[indy1919a4]

That picture caused a sh!tstorm when I posted it on Gunboards. Some people just would not believe that was a Spanish Civil War photo. In addition, pretty much all of the primary sources I cited in the article mentioned Polish rifles as having crests. I wonder if the observed "A" cartouche denotes a postwar rebuild/inventory program — allegedly, some Spanish M43 Mausers were built on Polish wz.29 receivers, but I can't find any confirmation of that. Only speculating, but it's possible they were scrubbed in preparation for either refurbishment or total reconfiguration. Until the Spanish Defense Ministry gets around to digitizing and making publicly available their post-Civil War documentation, we can't know for sure.

The link to the gallery is here, courtesy of the National Library of Spain: Visualización detallada - Biblioteca Digital Hispánica (BDH)

Thanks for that.. The way the photos of the wz29, vz-24 and Case of Mexican 7mm they almost look like staged evidence photos showing the international influence/arms being sent. My guess would be this was Nationalist photos especially considering where you got them from.

 

[indy1919a4]

Thanks, I guess I misunderstood the previous post and thought when you mentioned a known serial number range it was something more like a documented list of guns that were known to be shipped as opposed to a list of observed guns with particular features. The rifle I still have falls within those ranges, but it doesn't have any of the known features. The other rifles I used to have had the wire sling rings and one had a Spanish made ramrod as well. I don't recall either having any markings. Unfortunately, I don't seem to have kept any photos of them.

To me at least one of the cooler Spanish Mosin clues is how damage to the rifle was fixed. This is an example of a Mosin that had its handguard replaced and some rascal doing the repair was told here make this wreck look like a new one. So they went as far as carving the handguard so it had a faux metal reinforcing piece on it just carved out of wood.

This comes from a 1937 Tula in the 27,000 range.