AR Side Charge

[Trapper Jim]

Perhaps this has been exhausted in other threads but why wasn't the AR designed with a ambi side charging bolt?

 

[Tryin']

It was. They put it on the rear to make it ambi.

 

[johny5]

It was. They put it on the rear to make it ambi.

Exactly my thought. What am I missing, TJ?

 

[Scuba591]

There are plenty of options available for side charging uppers. Give a look at Bear Creek Arsenal or Red X Arms. I had one, enjoyed it and then traded it away

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Perhaps this has been exhausted in other threads but why wasn't the AR designed with a ambi side charging bolt?

Because on the original prototypes the gas tube on the (port) side and the top cocking piece was ambi.

By Prototype 2 Sullivan moved the gas tube topside inside and the cocking piece grew a "cage" around it to protect it just like the AR-10

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Here is an interview with L. James "Jim" Sullivan with Ian from Forgotten Weapons. He was a draftsman and then lead engineer (2 others assisted) on the reduction of the AR-10 to the hypervelocity .22 project which became the AR-15.

The gas tube and charging handle discussion is at 1:30:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOUKXIrDE0I

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Jim Sullivan is still with us. He lives in Florida and still works in his shop even at his advanced age.

Sullivan is known for both military firearms-- The Stoner 63, Ultimax 100 LMG, the MGX,
and COTS--Ruger Mini-14 and the Ruger M77. He also worked for Beretta for several years.

Sullivan is even now working on improvements of his MGX, a remarkable SAW variant, hoping to obtain military contracts.

Sullivan also has a PIP M4 which fires close bolt on semi and open bolt on full auto.

 

[churchmouse]

There are plenty of options available for side charging uppers. Give a look at Bear Creek Arsenal or Red X Arms. I had one, enjoyed it and then traded it away

I have a side charger and it has been a serious pain in my butt. I believe it is sorted now. but it can be painful. Literally.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

There are now COTS side charging weapons but if your question is about design then I will answer "human inertia". In 1957 the gas tube was in the way so just leave the ambi cocking piece topside like daddy, the AR-10.

 

[hANNAbONE]

get a 1st gen CZ Bren...there ya go.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

A side charging AR-10 nearly became the M110.

However, in a shoot off JP Enterprises side charge went down, the Knight's SR-25 kept going.

(JP Enterprise did not drill and pin, KAC does)

 

[Kirk Freeman]

get a 1st gen CZ Bren...there ya go.

Look, I came here to geek out and you are up in this piece with your "get a Glock" answer.

How can geek out about the AR-15 history with you solving things so quickly?

 

[Trapper Jim]

Thanks for the good info guys, I know some builders worry about the bolt side charger coming loose either hitting the shooter or jamming the weapon. Of the ones I shot I liked being able to work the bolt with the gun mounted.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Thanks for the good info guys, I know some builders worry about the bolt side charger coming loose either hitting the shooter or jamming the weapon. Of the ones I shot I liked being able to work the bolt with the gun mounted.

There are pros and cons to every engineering endeavor. Always will be.

If Sullivan moved the charging handle to the side a la the FAL or G3, INGO would be full of threads about what a bad idea that was.

You can work the bolt with the gun mounted regardless of where the charging handle is. The charging handle is always the devil in the AR system, regardless of where it is.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Eugene M. Stoner with side-charging G3, at 31:32

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xmtQ9f7NuY

If Stoner moved the charging handle from the top to the side instead of the back, there would be 39.134 threads on INGO where the topic would be why the side charging handles stinks so bad and why it should be on the top or at the back of the upper receiver.

All kinds of teeth-talking "that thar side-a-chargin' handle dun gets caught up on cover". Over and over and over we would hear the complaints.

 

[patience0830]

Eugene M. Stoner with side-charging G3, at 31:32

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xmtQ9f7NuY

If Stoner moved the charging handle from the top to the side instead of the back, there would be 39.134 threads on INGO where the topic would be why the side charging handles stinks so bad and why it should be on the top or at the back of the upper receiver.

All kinds of teeth-talking "that thar side-a-chargin' handle dun gets caught up on cover". Over and over and over we would hear the complaints.

Umm, there would be,(and are) complaints about everything. Regardless of location.

You could grow an arm in the middle of your forehead and it would be perfect for blowing your nose while your other hands were full and people would still want an egg in their beer.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Umm, there would be,(and are) complaints about everything. Regardless of location.

You could grow an arm in the middle of your forehead and it would be perfect for blowing your nose while your other hands were full and people would still want an egg in their beer.

I object to your post and wish to loudly complain about it.